Long Range Flintlock Rifle Shooting video

[Rifleman1776]

And yet all of the disagreement in the world didn't stop a rifleman from shooting the target at 200 yards with a first round hit.

The fact that some people can't do a thing, doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be done by those who can.

I have reenacted and studied the Rev. Rifleman for many years and am well acquainted with many of the reports (some conflicting) of long range shots. I did not say it wasn't possible to hit targets at that range. I am only criticizing trying to 'zero' a rifle at ranges like 200 yards. I never say never, but zeroing at that range comes as close to impossible as possible, IMHO. Before shooting at long ranges one must know if yer rifle will shoot accurately at any range. Therefore, zeroing at about 50 yards, practicing at 100 then attempting to hit things at 200 would be a more feasible approach. As for those officers being hit at long ranges, many reports indicate an officer other than the one aimed at was the one hit and/or his horse was hit. Many shooters simply do not shoot as well as their stories. At a recent shoot by my club (I wasn't there that day), only three of the competitors even hit the 100 yard target using a bench rest. They had one hit each. Winning score was something like a 7. I know, I'm a party pooper. Reality often ruins good stories. Sorry.

 

[George]

I am only criticizing trying to 'zero' a rifle at ranges like 200 yards. I never say never, but zeroing at that range comes as close to impossible as possible, IMHO.

You are selling yourself, other ML shooters and the guns far short. It's unfortunately far too common a thing with ML shooters. IMHO it shows the lack of a basic understanding of the ballistics of the round ball by the average shooter. I find it to be a puzzle. What you describe as "reality" is a belief which has been around since I got into the hobby 45 years ago, and shows no sign of improving. Much better information is easily available, why are so many people dead set against taking advantage of it?

Spence

 

[duelist1954]

Did you build the swivel breech? It does not quite look like one of Leonard Day's.

Yes. I built it from a David Price kit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You are selling yourself, other ML shooters and the guns far short. It's unfortunately far too common a thing with ML shooters. IMHO it shows the lack of a basic understanding of the ballistics of the round ball by the average shooter. I find it to be a puzzle. What you describe as "reality" is a belief which has been around since I got into the hobby 45 years ago, and shows no sign of improving. Much better information is easily available, why are so many people dead set against taking advantage of it?

Spence

Huh? Wajasay?

 

[George]

Huh? Wajasay?

I hear you.

Spence

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Yes. I built it from a David Price kit.

Where do I find pricing and information? The website doesn't come up.

 

[8 BORE]

Nice job with the video. I also enjoy long range shooting and I use the sight base aiming method. It allows the rifle to be zeroed at a normal shooting range and with practice you can hold up the right amount of front sight to hit at varying longer distances. Many years ago I shot hand gun metallic silhouette competition and this method worked well out to 200 meters. Did you build the swivel breech? It does not quite look like one of Leonard Day's.

I also shot IHMSA matches in Oklahoma and Missouri back in the day

 

[Rifleman1776]

You are selling yourself, other ML shooters and the guns far short. It's unfortunately far too common a thing with ML shooters. IMHO it shows the lack of a basic understanding of the ballistics of the round ball by the average shooter. I find it to be a puzzle. What you describe as "reality" is a belief which has been around since I got into the hobby 45 years ago, and shows no sign of improving. Much better information is easily available, why are so many people dead set against taking advantage of it?

Spence

Seriously, Spence, I'm having trouble figuring out what you are trying to say in that post. I'm trying to be realistic, not inferring ml shooters are incompetent or anything like that. As for ballistics, a round ball has about as great ballistics as a tossed brick. Now, keep in mind, I have about two more years experience at this game than you have, so I know better than you. ;-) Really, a prb shot at ranges greater than about 50-75 yards is just too subject to outside influences, mainly wind and velocity loss to be able to work up an accurate "zeroed" load. IMHO trying to zero at 200 yards is a fantasy notion. An ml rifle with prb zeroed properly at 50 yards will be as accurate as possible at 200 as can be if no other outside influences are at work.

 

[George]

We just see things differently, Rifleman. I have worked up loads for my .54 which dependably shot groups more than adequate for deer at 150 yards, proved it by shooting a lot of those groups before going on my first western hunt. Your evaluation of the capabilities of the round ball are not correct. I've read your opinions on this subject for quite a few years, now, and I just don't agree with them. My experience in the field, actually trying the ideas we talk so much about here, just don't match up.

I'm happy with my methods and you apparently are with yours, that's all that matters, isn't it?

Spence

 

[duelist1954]

Where do I find pricing and information? The website doesn't come up.

Here is David's website. The kits are even easier to build now because David is CNC ing the wood

https://davidpriceflintlocks.com/the-flintlock-shop/

 

[duelist1954]

I am only criticizing trying to 'zero' a rifle at ranges like 200 yards. I never say never, but zeroing at that range comes as close to impossible as possible, IMHO.

I'm not sure why you believe that. If you watched the video, you know that I rough zero'd for 200 yards by shooting at 100 yards, and setting my point of impact 16 inches above my point of aim, as determined by a ballistics calculator.

Then I moved to the two hundred yard bench and shot a group. It was still a little low, which two licks of a file on the front sight fixed. After that I shot groups ranging from six inches to 12 inches at 200 yards, depending on how hard I concentrated on my sight picture. I can shoot groups in an eight-inch circle pretty much all day at 200 yards with a .54 caliber round ball.

That's not the minute of angle groups I'd want from say a scoped .30-06, but it is good enough for me, given the limitations of my eyes and the sights. I would feel very comfortable shooting at a deer at that range, if I had a good rest, or at a redcoat.

 

[Hawgeye]

The British army was satisfied with a 2 MOA capable scoped sniper rifle. 4 MOA from a muzzleloader is great shooting.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Here is David's website. The kits are even easier to build now because David is CNC ing the wood

https://davidpriceflintlocks.com/the-flintlock-shop/

Thanks much. I have sent an email. I have always wanted a swivel breech and I'm delighted to find this.

 

[SDSmlf]

I'm not sure why you believe that. If you watched the video, you know that I rough zero'd for 200 yards by shooting at 100 yards, and setting my point of impact 16 inches above my point of aim, as determined by a ballistics calculator.

Then I moved to the two hundred yard bench and shot a group. It was still a little low, which two licks of a file on the front sight fixed. After that I shot groups ranging from six inches to 12 inches at 200 yards, depending on how hard I concentrated on my sight picture. I can shoot groups in an eight-inch circle pretty much all day at 200 yards with a .54 caliber round ball.

That's not the minute of angle groups I'd want from say a scoped .30-06, but it is good enough for me, given the limitations of my eyes and the sights. I would feel very comfortable shooting at a deer at that range, if I had a good rest, or at a redcoat.

I don’t dispute the long range capability of muzzleloaders, roundballs and iron sights. The issue I have in a hunting situation is knowing the correct distance. Open territory, a relatively large animal and a laser range finder it is fairly cut and dry. Without the laser or in timber where it is difficult to accurately use you are up against it. Guessing with your 200 yard zero you are a foot or so high at 175 yards and likely a foot and a half low at 225 yards. An error in range estimation of only few yards and you are significantly off target.

Maybe I missed it in the video, but what what was the midrange (100 yard) point of impact after your sight adjustment for the 200 zero? Guessing you were closer to 24” high, rather than the predicted 16”.

Good video. Enjoyed it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

zero'd for 200 yards

Zeroed for 200 yards and "zeroed" mean two different things. Working up a load for best (zeroed) accuracy then shooting at 200 yards by finding an aiming point above the 'X' is another animule altogether. IMHO. (BTW: the "good enough for me" is a poor standard, again, IMHO.)

 

[duelist1954]

Maybe I missed it in the video, but what what was the midrange (100 yard) point of impact after your sight adjustment for the 200 zero? Guessing you were closer to 24” high, rather than the predicted 16”.

Good video. Enjoyed it.

The actual adjustment was 22 inches, but I still find it easier to aim about 22 inches low at 100 yards than to aim close to four feet above the target at 200 yards.

That said, the way I sight a rifle depends on its intended purpose.

My target rifle is zero'd in at 25 yards, because the paper matches and woods walks I attend have targets usually from 15 feet to 100 yards, and that zero s a good compromise. Ditto my squirrel rifle.

My deer rifles are zero'd at 100 yards, because, here in my part of Pennsylvania, I rarely get a shot over 125 yards.

But, if I hunted in open country, or, if my job was potting red coated officers out beyond the capability of musket-armed infantry, I would definitely want a gun zero'd at 200 yards. That's what I was trying to demonstrate in the video,

 

[duelist1954]

Zeroed for 200 yards and "zeroed" mean two different things. Working up a load for best (zeroed) accuracy then shooting at 200 yards by finding an aiming point above the 'X' is another animule altogether. IMHO. (BTW: the "good enough for me" is a poor standard, again, IMHO.)

Please do a video on that. I would really like to watch it and learn.

 

[tenngun]

I only watched about half of the video. Too much there I didn't agree with. i.e. zero at 200 yards. Gimmee a break. A lot of shooters couldn't hit a barn at that distance. Literally.

That folks can hit at this distance was proved long before this video. Sixteenth century had rifle comititions at three hundred yards. But smoothies at two hundred. And there is more then one red coated ghosts that can affirm that at near a quarter mile a ball can be deadly. However this is beyond the range a ml should be used for hunting.
That’s what wouldbother me,is boys popping shots at ranges betterserved by guns not covered here.

 

[Eterry]

Over on the N-SSA site I once asked a general question I've asked here...whats your most accurate load? The difference was, over at N-SSA many shooters gave one load for 50 yards, a different one for 100, and another for 200. Now we are talking about competition at known ranges, but several said they hunt to 100 yards plus with their rifles.

I agree range estimation is important, even VITAL when using a M/L. This too is improved by practice. Some are better at it than others.

Long range shooting isn't a new invention...Anyone ever heard of a 40 Rod Gun? That, friends and neighbors, is 220 yards. Check out Ned Robert's book for some impressive targets from back in the day using muzzle loaders and lead bullets.

Duelist' sighting in at 200 yards and holding low for shorter range isn't without precedent. I've read Carlos Hathcock tell of sighting in at 600 yards, holding at the knees for closer ranges, the head for longer ranges. I think his record speaks for itself.

Do I think we all should sight in at 200 yards for hunting? NO WAY! I think Duelist would agree with me there. But he certainly showed that it CAN be done.

 

[Billy Boy]

I see a discussion of 2 sports here, hunting and shooting. One is a learned, mechanical skill, one is a lifetime avocation. For me, one mostly involves impressing your friends, one involves killing an animal. With a new can of liver snaps I can teach a cat how to shoot. Hunting is a different world and again, for me, if done properly, shooting is a very small part of it. My goal is to kill an adult, male whitetail deer, hunting on the ground,at 6 yds. I’m at 9 now. My gun, load, sights, nothing special...sorry, I’m just a very old school geezer. Choose your sport, enjoy it.