Looking for feedback on the styling of my longrifle

[Birdwatcher]

Bought it used last year. When I ain't expecting to do firing demo's the several times a year I get to reenact at the Alamo I'll bring it along (when I'm going to be firing the nod goes to my smoothie, just easier to clean on the spot).

Ok its a .50 cal non-tapered Ed Rayle barrel. Finish is beeswax w/charcoal (??).

Large Siler deluxe lock (I think), pewter nosecap, no sideplate no buttplate, one ramrod thimble.

I'd be interested in hearing from folks here what location and date it best fits (or doesn't fit). You'd be surprised how interested visitors to the Alamo are in such details.

With the dark finish and pewter nosecap I could always pass it off as an early Nylon 66 :grin:

Thanks,

Birdwatcher

 

[nwtradegun]

southern poor boy late 1700s to early 1800s. tipical of the Appalachian area in the south.

 

[rich pierce]

1820-1840 Appalachian rifle with a re-used1770s lock.

 

[tenngun]

I put a siler German style lock on my southern rifle. A few years later I learned that such a lock was not used on southern guns :redface: I like my gun but its always there like a Cheshire cat reminding me that I messed up. Oh well live and learn or you don't live long.
That's a fine looking gun and I would be proud to own it. I didn't notice the lock until pointed out. That kind of shows we see faults on our own stuff that wont be noticed by others.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Thanks for all the replies all.

And no worries about the lock. To the general public flinters are truly a mystery, as they were to me before I got started. I'll simply point out the subtleties of the lockplate and cock shape and explain it doesn't really go with where and when the style of the rifle was typical.

On the topic of locks, I usually explain that the big, round-faced Colonial Virginia lock on my fowler/generic parts gun/smooth rifle (take yer pick :grin: ) ain't typical of the 1830's either.

But OMG the Siler lock on the rifle is so much faster than that clunky Virginia. Didn't realize going into it that bigger locks tend to be slower. I still like that big ol' lock though, its perfect for guys who need reading glasses.

Birdwatcher

 

[Zonie]

If I were you, I wouldn't even bother to mention the shape of the lock plate to the Public.

They won't know the difference between a Siler and a Manton or Ketland and wouldn't care.

The only things that might be mentioned is the rifle is a flintlock and flintlocks were in use as much as 200 years before the Alamo battle and were still popular with some shooters even later.

Also mentioning that the gun is a rifle with twisted rifling that makes it more accurate than the smoothbores used by the Mexicans is not only true but it would be interesting to the public.

As for the rifle, it seems to be a mix of things.
The narrow flat butt plate is rather strange for a rifle. These buttplates weren't usually seen until the advent of the cartridge guns on rifles.

Coupling the unusual butt plate with the flintlock is rather odd too but to many in 1836 the flintlock was still "king".

The trigger guard is typical Southern style and when coupled with a steel butt plate seems to put the gun in general from somewhere in the South in the late 1820's.

 

[Homesteader]

Hey Zonie, I'm curious about the butt plate. I've read it's usual to have a crescent plate (if that's the right term). My arm / shoulder is way too big for those to work, so I like the flatter form of this gun and smoothbores I've seen (French, for instance).

Have you encountered any references to flatter / wider butt plates in the real historical world?

I'm guessing there must've been some big ole muscular boys back in the day, and I'm wondering what they did.

 

[Homesteader]

My guess is "grin & bear it"! :grin: :v

 

[Crewdawg445]

Interesting rifle you have there my friend. Certainly agree with the others on the southern poor boy style, which I've got a weak spot for! :grin: Definitely like the siler lock, any markings indicating to the maker?

 

[tenngun]

Took it to be sans butt plate. The first southern rifle I ever saw was owned by rifleman 1776 it was with out a plate but had an antler inlay at the back edge of the comb. Good looking gun,as is yours. Deep down inside I think lots of guns were made with cast off and miss matched parts.

 

[Birdwatcher]

If I were you, I wouldn't even bother to mention the shape of the lock plate to the Public.

They won't know the difference between a Siler and a Manton or Ketland and wouldn't care.

The only things that might be mentioned is the rifle is a flintlock and flintlocks were in use as much as 200 years before the Alamo battle and were still popular with some shooters even later.

Also mentioning that the gun is a rifle with twisted rifling that makes it more accurate than the smoothbores used by the Mexicans is not only true but it would be interesting to the public.

This is me with my smoothie flinter, and an old '70's CVA Kentucky pistol in the holster. I explain that while most folks didn't have pistols in Texas at that time I carry it to show folks the difference between flint and percussion.

Likewise we'll zip through the rifling/no rifling thing in about fifteen seconds.

One thing I've notice is that even to those who dont have a clue, the authentic is somehow instantly recognizable. Fer example, what I carry is somehow instantly more interesting that say the Traditions or Cabelas longrifle someone else might show up with, tho all are flintlocks.

I feel the same way about telling 'em this very plain gun was typical of a Southern Mountain style longrifle of that era, and that most of the Americans who died at the Alamo were from the South. I have found that a detailed explanation holds their attention far more than a generic one.

(point of fact, not to be forgotten either were the Baker rifles in the hands of some of Santa Anna's force, one of which had plugged the famous Texian Ben Milam in the head three months earlier during the Battle of Bexar when the Texians drove out the force under Santa Anna's brother-in-law and captured the Alamo).

I do agree that the end profile of the buttstock is somewhat odd. If nothing else, the lack of a curve combined with the smooth wooden butt does mean it slips off one's shoulder while shooting unless you are careful. Takes some getting used to.

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

Durn it, the edit time expires so quick around here... here's the pic I forgot to include...

I also explain that the beard is totally farb too, no White folks apparently wore beards on purpose in Texas back then except possibly Germans.

No justification for that cool priming horn around my neck either. IIRC these things are sparse in the historical record.

For the guns, Davy Crockett notwithstanding, the Refugio Miltia, a well-researched and respected local renactment group, estimates that British and American muskets, along with American-made fowlers, were all more common among Texians back then than even longrifles.

Interesting stuff, see.
http://www.refugiomilitia.com/files.php

 

[Shifty]

There is no but plate on a poorboy,just one variation of many so called Southern Mountain, and Tenn rifles, not sure how many but several.But a lot of them where indeed purcussion,and being that the region or origin was usually poor things like iron furniture where made and used and some times not,and the less reflective nature of iron was liked by many.When seen in up close these type rifle are really very nice.

 

[rr11]

I agree with the others I would call it a Southern Mountain Rifle, I have handled several originals that were of mixed recycled parts. I would think it is of the correct time line.

 

[Pete G]

I would not worry one second about the shape of the butt on that rifle. Since there is no plate it has to be relatively flat. Too much curvature and the toe of the stock would never hold up.

 

[kopfjaeger]

I'd say southern mountain poor boy rifle also. The locks a german style, should be a english style like others have said. It's still a very nice rifle.

Just tell everyone it's a southern pennsylvania mountain poor boy rifle. :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

Like Rich said, it's your basic Tennessee/Appalachian 1820's, 30's, 40's (50's, 60's, 70's, 80's...) "poorboy" mountain rifle, with the exception of the anachronistic lock, of course, but that's not unusual today. NO ONE makes a decent representative of the common-or-garden variety of hardware store lock of the 19th century, unless you want to try to get something from The Rifle Shoppe or somewhere.

Actually, I like the gun, even with the funky black finish!

Any idea who made it? It looks much better and more well-thought-out than your average slapped together precarve/kit.

 

[peter hawbaker]

Looks like a large Siler, but I don't believe it is the Deluxe Siler. The cock, jaw screw, and frizzen spring look like the standard large Siler.

 

[Mickc01]

That is a really cool and unusual looking riflegun. It would be right at home in the NC mountains... :thumbsup:

 

[Birdwatcher]

Thanks for the replies all. Took me a while to dig up some old emails to recall the maker's name.

Turns out this rifle was sent to Roy Stroh partly completed by someone (might explain the uneven browning on the lock.. Mr Stroh then reshaped and lightened the stock to its present form and finished the rifle. Mr Stroh does some fine work and similar pieces to this can be found on his website.

Birdwatcher