Looking into getting my first flintlock rifle

[WarrenSachs]

I am looking into getting my first flintlock rifle. I have a modern muzzleloader but I want to get into traditional muzzleloading. I want a flintlock and I want to hunt deer with it. I live in Maryland, USA and my local hunting regulations state that the minimum rifle caliber that can be used is .40 caliber. I would like to use either a .40, .44 or .45 caliber rifle. I am highly inclined to the idea of a .40 caliber. I live on a small piece of ground about 17 acres. However my property is surrounded by houses, that being said I have the legal ability to hunt my ground as my property lines are far enough away from the nearest houses. I do not want some sort of long range cannon as I know some fellas who have .62 caliber rifles and can go out to 200 yards easily. I want something that does the job and doesn't blow through both flanks of a deer like a rocket. I also would like to hunt squirrel, groundhogs, rabbit and turkey on my property and seem to think the smaller .40 is more versatile than a .50 or .54. I do not want a smoothbore at this time as I would like to start with a rifle and gradually work my way into smoothbores and pistols. Does anyone have any experience using a .40 caliber for White Tailed Deer on the Eastern Seaboard ? I just would like to know if you can routinely make ethical harvests. I have heard horror stories of people using peashooters to hunt deer and absolutely maiming the poor creatures. What is the ideal operating range of a .40 caliber rifle ? What is a good barrel length to use ? Good Starting powder charge and type of powder ? Like I said I only have a modern muzzleloader that uses modern powder pellets and I want to correct the error of my ways and embrace tradition..... I guess. Thanks to all who reply.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Greetings from Damascus, Maryland.
I have a .40

Yes you can do all of your requirements with a .40 rifle, and patched round ball. As of right now, IF you wanted to used a conical bullet, you would need to order a custom mold and cast your own. The company that could do that for you would be Lee. BUT you said you were worried about shooting out-of-safe. Patched round ball is a better bet.

I would suggest a Southern Mountain Rifle (SMR) in .40. The barrel will be from 38-42 inches long.

As for a "starting charge" well here in Maryland, for deer, the legal minimum charge is 60 grains. I'd use 60 grains of 3Fg, and I'd use 3Fg for the priming powder in the pan. I'd suggest that you use a 30 grain measure, and use that for the rabbits and the squirrels, and simply double the charge when you go for deer. Of course this will require some range time to learn the difference in point of impact. Some folks will say this can be complicated, and don't like the double-charge idea, so if you think so as well, then you get two powder measures, one for small game with perhaps less than a 30 grain charge, and a 60 grain for deer.

As for ethical harvests and horror stories, ANY of the muzzleloading rifles out there will cause such terrible results. From a .36 to a .75. It depends on the shooter working up an accurate charge along with learning how to estimate range in the woods, and not taking "iffy" shots. Figure on 75 yards as your max effective range, and do your utmost to engage the deer at no farther than 50 yards, and you should have no worries about putting venison on the table. Small game, work on head shots.

You can "cheat" too. Nothing wrong with using a tree trunk and your forward hand to stabilize your shot. Nothing wrong on you own property placing strips of bright pink contractor's marker at 50 yards from where your chosen hunting spot will be. That way you know when the deer is close enough.

IF you cannot find or afford a .40, then look to the .45. It's been decades since anybody imported (or made) a .44 rifle, and you might see one or two left over from the '70's. I have seen one, and I got it for my nephew, along with a .433 round ball measure, but that's a story for another time.

LD

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I own both 40 and 45 both have there places. For u I'd go 40 caliber as its still enough for a well placed deer kill and well enough for small game. Good thing about the 40 caliber if u get in to match shooting there often a squirrel or small caliber event. 40 caliber is usually the largest u can use. I target shoot the 40 mostly and hunt with a 45 or up for deer, but have killed a few deer and hogs with a 40.
As far as picking and choosing style of rifle lengths etc. I strongly recommend you find a rendezvous in your area and attend it. Most guys will let you handle and often shoot their rifles. For deer hunting I prefer a 36 straight barrel or 38-39" swamped barrel in early VA style - the wider but spreads the recoil out more and balances the gun better. Its easier to swing on deer and maneuver in the woods and from trees. Target shooting I prefer 42-44" swamped barrels now but grew up shooting straight barrels, but have gradually switched over. Also before you invest in flintlock shoot some and make sure you like it. Many times I know guys that spend good money on a flintlock and sell it for half the price a year later because its not for them, or they want to convert it to percussion. Then there's the other side guys go from percussion to flintlocks. But please shoot many guns and styles as you can. Example I have many southern style mountain rifles but they are all in small 45 and less calibers. I love the long slim lines and perty wood, and browned steel. They can be built in bigger calibers but the style makes for more felt recoil. So I love the steel versions of an early VA rifle in the bigger calibers and have it from 45-54 calibers and they are a joy to shoot with heavy loads. I've got lancaster styles, and half stocks too. ALSO BUY THE BEST QUALITY YOU CAN AFFORD AND IF YOU CANT AFORD QUALITY KEEP SAVING DON'T BUT CHEAP WITH FLINKLOCKS OR U WILL HATE THEM.

 

[longcruise]

I'd go with a 32 or a 36 or 40 for match/target shooting and a 50 or 54 for big game.

 

[smokepolehall]

I have several .40's & a few .45's. The .40 is decent and useable i make a habit of 75 yards & under shots on deer. I prefer 50 & under, but sometimes i get hungry. A .45 is as big as i would shoot squirrels, don't bother with a .44.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

As others have said, .44 are hard to find. The 40 will do what you want. That said, if you travel out of state to hunt, other states require larger bore muzzleloaders (PA requires 45 or larger in a long gun).
Be aware that this can get a bit addictive. A nice 40 could lead to a nice 58 or 62 smoothbore. One added note, don't think of a 62 smoothbore as a cannon. It could be, with a large powder charge, but doesn't have to be if you are keeping your hunting ranges close.
Good luck. Try to find a range with BP shooters, an event, or someone here who can let you try different styles. Some folks don't get comfortable with southern mountain rifles and want shorter "Hawken" or great plains style. You'll have to test out style that you want and weight you don't find too cumbersome.

 

[Dave Marsh]

I'll second Johnny Too Tall and say go with the best. I started cheap and was so sorry I did. A Kibler SMR looks like the ticket for you. Good luck but buy the best.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I'm next door in Pa. Here we are not allowed to use smaller than .44 caliber for deer. In my opinion a .40 is a little light for deer sized game. Yes it can be done, but so can a .32 in the right hands, but that doesn't mean it's the right choice. If I were you, I'd go with a .45 caliber over a .40. If you want to hunt small game then you have an excuse to buy a .32 caliber.

Now me, I use a .54 caliber shooting round balls for deer. Even a light charge out of a .54 is going to take deer down. And a light charge takes some of the concern for the ball traveling long distances out of the equation.

 

[Rebel bull]

I agree with all or most of the comments made here except for the part about not buying until you can afford to buy the more expensive gun my first flintlock was a CVA Kentucky kit got it for $100 learned to shoot it right (about 6 months of competing) in the day I never felt that I was out classed when I was winning matches there was prettier guns there but they didn't shoot any better. I now (30 years later) have 3 other flints all prettier but none of them can shoot any better. by the way that CVA 45 still has my longest muzzleloader deer 125 yds (measured) both front shoulder blades ball under the hide on the far side, 70 grains 3f, .440 ball, .018" wonder lubed patch. This is the toughest deer hunt I've ever had weather wise. In my opinion go for the traditions 45 kentucky kit good luck !

Now let the hate mail begin

 

[longcruise]

Now let the hate mail begin

Won't be getting any from me. Those guns both flint and perc and CVA as wll as the current Traditions shoot all beyond what most seem to expect.

I'm very tempted to jump into a Traditions 50 for a deer and antelope rifle. I have a CVA 45 and it is simply equal in accuracy to any of my other guns.

Only thing that worries me is the quality of the Traditions flint lock.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@WarrenSachs, the earlier posts do a pretty good job of listing the pros and cons of each caliber selection. One of the very real concerns about getting the first flintlock rifle is addressing the cost. With a flint lock, initial satisfaction is all about the lock. This is where the more expensive locks really come into prominence. The best locks will be the most expensive item on the list of parts for a rifle. The good news is that the Traditions (once upon a time CVA) use a very good barrel. The bad news is that even after over 40 years of production, the locks are made to entry level affordable construction. This means that springs may be soft, internal parts may be soft and the locks are minimally tuned for performance. None-the-less with reasonable tuning, the locks can perform at an acceptable level as @Rebel bull experienced. The affordable entry level guns such as the Traditions rifles with set triggers, will have the better design of a lock with an internal bridle, fly and slightly hardened parts. These locks will still need tuning to polish the rough and sharp edges. Flints will need to be purchased to fit to the frizzen. I prefer a lock that is larger than some of the tiny locks as the larger locks use a larger flint against a larger frizzen for more sparks and more sparks mean better ignition of the powder charge.

The 45 caliber rifles will be more likely to be found at the entry level. For your application, a 40 caliber should meet all your needs, but this comes at an uptick in initial cost and difficulty in finding 40 caliber accessories such as ball and cleaning jags. Do get a metal (brass or stainless steel) working rod as entry level ramrods are flimsy at best and break easily and don't always perform well for cleaning and loading.

Remember, shooting a flintlock rifle is an art form that takes some effort to get the maximum satisfaction from the experience.

 

[smokepolehall]

I am not gung ho on bigger than .45 caliber but a .50 is not a cannon by any means in the World of prb shooting. 100 yards is a very long poke with a rock sparker. I have a Traditions Woodsman Hawken rock sparker that actually is a decent entry level model. It's accurate, easy to clean & certainly has the power to cleanly kill deer & hogs. My lock is okay, i have polished it N clean it. I use 5/8"x 3/4" flints with it. By no means do i regret buying it or using it, i got my money's worth

 

[WarrenSachs]

Greetings from Damascus, Maryland.
I have a .40

Yes you can do all of your requirements with a .40 rifle, and patched round ball. As of right now, IF you wanted to used a conical bullet, you would need to order a custom mold and cast your own. The company that could do that for you would be Lee. BUT you said you were worried about shooting out-of-safe. Patched round ball is a better bet.

I would suggest a Southern Mountain Rifle (SMR) in .40. The barrel will be from 38-42 inches long.

As for a "starting charge" well here in Maryland, for deer, the legal minimum charge is 60 grains. I'd use 60 grains of 3Fg, and I'd use 3Fg for the priming powder in the pan. I'd suggest that you use a 30 grain measure, and use that for the rabbits and the squirrels, and simply double the charge when you go for deer. Of course this will require some range time to learn the difference in point of impact. Some folks will say this can be complicated, and don't like the double-charge idea, so if you think so as well, then you get two powder measures, one for small game with perhaps less than a 30 grain charge, and a 60 grain for deer.

As for ethical harvests and horror stories, ANY of the muzzleloading rifles out there will cause such terrible results. From a .36 to a .75. It depends on the shooter working up an accurate charge along with learning how to estimate range in the woods, and not taking "iffy" shots. Figure on 75 yards as your max effective range, and do your utmost to engage the deer at no farther than 50 yards, and you should have no worries about putting venison on the table. Small game, work on head shots.

You can "cheat" too. Nothing wrong with using a tree trunk and your forward hand to stabilize your shot. Nothing wrong on you own property placing strips of bright pink contractor's marker at 50 yards from where your chosen hunting spot will be. That way you know when the deer is close enough.

IF you cannot find or afford a .40, then look to the .45. It's been decades since anybody imported (or made) a .44 rifle, and you might see one or two left over from the '70's. I have seen one, and I got it for my nephew, along with a .433 round ball measure, but that's a story for another time.

LD

Just the kind of person I was looking forward to replying to this thread. Hats off to a fellow Marylander. Thanks for the info.

 

[WarrenSachs]

@WarrenSachs, the earlier posts do a pretty good job of listing the pros and cons of each caliber selection. One of the very real concerns about getting the first flintlock rifle is addressing the cost. With a flint lock, initial satisfaction is all about the lock. This is where the more expensive locks really come into prominence. The best locks will be the most expensive item on the list of parts for a rifle. The good news is that the Traditions (once upon a time CVA) use a very good barrel. The bad news is that even after over 40 years of production, the locks are made to entry level affordable construction. This means that springs may be soft, internal parts may be soft and the locks are minimally tuned for performance. None-the-less with reasonable tuning, the locks can perform at an acceptable level as @Rebel bull experienced. The affordable entry level guns such as the Traditions rifles with set triggers, will have the better design of a lock with an internal bridle, fly and slightly hardened parts. These locks will still need tuning to polish the rough and sharp edges. Flints will need to be purchased to fit to the frizzen. I prefer a lock that is larger than some of the tiny locks as the larger locks use a larger flint against a larger frizzen for more sparks and more sparks mean better ignition of the powder charge.

The 45 caliber rifles will be more likely to be found at the entry level. For your application, a 40 caliber should meet all your needs, but this comes at an uptick in initial cost and difficulty in finding 40 caliber accessories such as ball and cleaning jags. Do get a metal (brass or stainless steel) working rod as entry level ramrods are flimsy at best and break easily and don't always perform well for cleaning and loading.

Remember, shooting a flintlock rifle is an art form that takes some effort to get the maximum satisfaction from the experience.

Thanks for the info. My local gunshop has Hornady .395 (40 cal) round balls on the shelf and patching material, lubricants, cleaners, possible bags, jags, ball pullers, cleaning kits and more. Quite a large muzzleloading section. That shop was where I bought my modern Traditions muzzleloader. I have been looking into some of the 40 cal rifles for sale here on the forum.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Thanks for the info. My local gunshop has Hornady .395 (40 cal) round balls on the shelf and patching material, lubricants, cleaners, possible bags, jags, ball pullers, cleaning kits and more. Quite a large muzzleloading section. That shop was where I bought my modern Traditions muzzleloader. I have been looking into some of the 40 cal rifles for sale here on the forum.

Do consider casting your own ammunition. This way you won't have to worry about sourcing balls. Pure lead can still be bought from places like rotometals.com, or you can sometimes find it at flea sales or gunshows. Old fishing sinkers(the pure lead kind) are also a good source. My father in law gave me a couple pounds worth of big 5 ounce sinkers when he got out of the deep sea fishing hobby. I told him I'd be casting them into ammo. He was OK with that. A 5 ounce sinker makes a couple dozen .311 balls.

 

[Rebel bull]

Won't be getting any from me. Those guns both flint and perc and CVA as wll as the current Traditions shoot all beyond what most seem to expect.

I'm very tempted to jump into a Traditions 50 for a deer and antelope rifle. I have a CVA 45 and it is simply equal in accuracy to any of my other guns.

Only thing that worries me is the quality of the Traditions flint lock.

I personally cannot speak to the quality of the current production Traditions flintlocks if they still are built with a bridle and still have the sear adjustment screw then you will have a lock that you can work with like ALL of the locks being currently being produced they "may" need tweeking. all locks benefit from polishing some more then others the rule is go slow or hire it done. although I've never had anyone else work on my lock I've heard that there are people that do this service at some of the suppliers I think one of them is the log cabin shop and maybe deer creek but don't let someone else scare you away from a old CVA kit ! another way to go would be to convert a used CVA percussion gun to flint a little more expensive but easy to do. I have done more then a handful of these for friends and family.

 

[hanshi]

I've owned a .40 flintlock but never hunted in a state that allowed the .40 for deer. For small game I had both a .32 & a .36 which are ideal. Most of the deer I've killed were killed with a .45 although I also used .50s, .54 and .62. With a small area to hunt there is always a risk that your shot deer may make it off your property. A .45 "might" drop them a little quicker.

A .40 won't really be much less damaging than a .45 on small critters such as squirrels. Regardless what caliber you use for small game try to make head shots exclusively. A .40 or a .45 can do "everything", for the most part, that you asked about. The main thing is to get a rifle with a good-sparking lock. Rifles such as Traditions flintlocks can have decent locks and shouldn't be ruled out. Best would be a used flintlock that had a good builder to start with. The rifle is likely a fine one but the owner simply wishes to upgrade. Get with someone who is good with flintlocks and learn a few "tricks-of-the-trade" needed to keep them happy.

 

[Flint1]

I have a .40 flintlock made by a very dear friend many years ago. It's an excellent highly accurate target rifle. In South Carolina .40 is the largest caliber legal for squirrels and is also legal for deer. Although I generally carry a .54 in the deer woods the .40 is an excellent all around choice.