Looking to restore a rifle gifted to my Grandfather

[kjberry]

Hello all,

I have a percussion rifle that was given to my Grandfather by a family named Ziemer (likely sometime between 1945 and 1980) inscribed on the patchbox. I've read up a little on percussion rifles and I'd like to bring this back to full operation (or at least much prettier) but I don't know where to start. The only identifying number is on the barrel 046684. It is about mid-barrel on the right side. It isn't a beauty, just something I want to do to remember my Grandfather and have something to pass down. The whole thing is almost 4 feet 2 inches and 7.2 lbs.

Questions are if it's a period replica--nothing to write home about?

Should I try seeing if it'll fire (assuming I can find someone local to instruct me. My only resource is Youtube at the moment. I haven't asked around the arms dealers. I have scoped the barrel and there is no evidence that it has ever been fired, that I can see. No caking, carbon, burns, or residue.

Is there a danger of the barrel exploding if this is just someone's replica and not meant to be fired (I read that's a thing)?

I understand there were hundreds of these types of rifles made by gunsmiths/owners that may have never placed an ID of sorts. Does the overall assembly, or the etching on the lock assembly look familiar to anyone?

Aslo, where can I look to get a new ramrod and replacement ramrod guide(s) for the front of the rifle (wrong name likely).

Thanks for any help!

Ken

 

[Notchy Bob]

Kjberry, welcome to the forum. This looks like a 20th century replica to me. Please don't take offense, but that pattern of patch box is often described as the "paint spill" pattern, and is similar to that which was used on the old Numrich/Hopkins & Allen "Minuteman" rifles of the 1960s. I don't think yours is a Minuteman, though... Those had a 39" barrel.

Look near the breech and see if you can find any stampings or proof marks in the barrel, and post photos if you can. Your rifle has the look of an import, and proof marks may help determine country of origin.

You have already scoped the barrel. I hope you made sure it was unloaded, first! Anyway, it sounds as if the bore is in good shape. That's good.

There are indeed some useful videos on YouTube, but there are also some that were made by uninformed people who happen to own a video camera. If you have no prior familiarity with muzzleloaders, you might not discern the difference. I would encourage you to check with local ranges and shooting clubs and ask about any black powder groups in your area. It's good to have a knowledgeable person have a look at your rifle and check it for function and safety.

It really doesn't matter where or when it was made, if it belonged to your grandpa. The rifle will be a good way to remember him. Also, some less expensive imports can be fun to shoot. A lot of people got started with them.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[TreeMan]

I may be wrong but it looks like a 1970s era replica. Possibly a Jukar brand. They are fine to shoot if it’s in good condition. Not really worth much money nor would I spend much money on it.

 

[oldwood]

Your rifle is probably a Hopkins and Allen . The give away is the "patchbox that looks like a paint spill." (Not my quote.) It was written up in some magazine back in the very early 1970's , and sold by many dept. stores , like Penneys. I couldn't afford one back then. One of the other of the rifle's counter parts, was called H and A Under hammer percussion. It came in a long barrel and a short barrel version. Used to covet them , but my lunch money was just too short. .....oldwood

 

[tenngun]

That’s was my thinking

 

[NorthFork]

I vote import reproduction/H&A. Dollar value is low.

Now all that said, a little cleaning, some exploration to see if it's loaded or not, and some basic TLC and you could have a nice rifle with lots of sentimental value. That kind of value is often times worth more than mere $$.

 

[fleener]

If you are wanting to make it look nicer, I would wipe it down with Kramers Antique Restorer on the wood and metal. It will lift some of the dirt and grim. Other then that I would not do anything to the wood or metal finish.

Find someone local that can take you under their wing and help you with learning how to shoot this rifle safely.

Where are you from?

Fleener

 

[fleener]

Items don't have to have a large monetary value to be of sentimental value to you. Enjoy it and use it safely.

Fleener

 

[BEP]

When I look at your rifle I'm puzzled. I own a H&A Minuteman; it's my second one. The first one was mine in the early 1970's. Both own that distinctive patchbox but neither had a two-piece stock. Your lock is entirely different and the barrels both had/have a drum and nipple, not a bolster and nipple. The lockplates are quite a bit larger - by unscrewing the drum and screwing in a vent liner I can change from percussion to flintlock. That triggerguard is identical to the ones on the H&A rifles, however. So the similarities and differences are about 50/50. I do know that they were sold in kit form so it's possible that someone got a partial H&A kit and used other pieces-parts to assemble a rifle. I guess I'm not much help here; as I re-read my post I realize that I'm just guessing and musing with a keyboard. Oh well.

 

[EC121]

Go to Track of the Wolf(trackofthewolf.com) and look at their ramrod pipes. They also sell ramrods. Length doesn't matter. You can cut it off to fit. Because it is an import, it is probably metric sized. A 3/8" rod with a little sanding/scraping will fit.

 

[mooman76]

I have an old Hopkins Allen Kentucky rifle. It had a two piece stock, mine has a narrow brass plate(looks allot like the CVA) no patch box either but it does have the bolster type breech, not a drum. I believe it was made around 1973 or so. It was still in kit form when I got it and had a Wards receipt with it from 1974. It is stanmped Hopkins & Allen Kentucky rifle on it.

 

[mooman76]

I would shoot it after you make sure it's unloaded first. Use only Black powder or BP substitute like Pyrodex. Maybe you can find someone there that knows about them and can show you how. I'd start with 45 grains of powder. We measure by volume not weight.

 

[oldwood]

The rifles I saw years ago w/ KJBerry's long gun. There was a long H+ A percussion under hammer , and a short one . Just remembered the name of the short one...The "buggy rifle". It was popular w / some of the crazies I hung w/ 'cause they would shoot those old thick shaft ceder arrows out of it. Guess they figured if she would accidentally shoot the loading ramrod out of it , must be ok for arrows. Oh well ,that was some weirdness , from back then... oldwood

 

[TNGhost]

Hello all,

I have a percussion rifle that was given to my Grandfather by a family named Ziemer (likely sometime between 1945 and 1980) inscribed on the patchbox. I've read up a little on percussion rifles and I'd like to bring this back to full operation (or at least much prettier) but I don't know where to start. The only identifying number is on the barrel 046684. It is about mid-barrel on the right side. It isn't a beauty, just something I want to do to remember my Grandfather and have something to pass down. The whole thing is almost 4 feet 2 inches and 7.2 lbs.

Questions are if it's a period replica--nothing to write home about?

Should I try seeing if it'll fire (assuming I can find someone local to instruct me. My only resource is Youtube at the moment. I haven't asked around the arms dealers. I have scoped the barrel and there is no evidence that it has ever been fired, that I can see. No caking, carbon, burns, or residue.

Is there a danger of the barrel exploding if this is just someone's replica and not meant to be fired (I read that's a thing)?

I understand there were hundreds of these types of rifles made by gunsmiths/owners that may have never placed an ID of sorts. Does the overall assembly, or the etching on the lock assembly look familiar to anyone?

Aslo, where can I look to get a new ramrod and replacement ramrod guide(s) for the front of the rifle (wrong name likely).

Thanks for any help!

Ken

I'd say definitely a 70s era import, probably from Spain. There were literally dozens of importers importing many variations of this type of rifle. The lack of proof marks on the barrel indicates it was probably imported as a kit. I am thinking the builder made it for you grandfather and added the patchbox as a nice touch.

Should certainly be safe to shoot if in good condition. No danger of the barrel exploding if it is undamaged and proper loads are used.

I have a pistol with an almost identical lock, that was inported from Spain by Markwell Arms if that is any help. It is also of the 70s era.

As mentioned, I'd try Track of the Wolf for replacement parts, or Deercreek, or Dixie Gun Works or any of a number of other Black Powder specialty vendors.

 

[Carbon 6]

It's a Miroku, Ultra-High Kentucky rifle. They were sold by Sears & Roebuck.

 

[87TT]

I have an Ultra Hi Kentucky. No patch box. Only a brass plate where a patch box would go. It does have “Ultra Hi” on the barrel.

 

[kjberry]

Kjberry, welcome to the forum. This looks like a 20th century replica to me. Please don't take offense, but that pattern of patch box is often described as the "paint spill" pattern, and is similar to that which was used on the old Numrich/Hopkins & Allen "Minuteman" rifles of the 1960s. I don't think yours is a Minuteman, though... Those had a 39" barrel.

Look near the breech and see if you can find any stampings or proof marks in the barrel, and post photos if you can. Your rifle has the look of an import, and proof marks may help determine country of origin.

You have already scoped the barrel. I hope you made sure it was unloaded, first! Anyway, it sounds as if the bore is in good shape. That's good.

There are indeed some useful videos on YouTube, but there are also some that were made by uninformed people who happen to own a video camera. If you have no prior familiarity with muzzleloaders, you might not discern the difference. I would encourage you to check with local ranges and shooting clubs and ask about any black powder groups in your area. It's good to have a knowledgeable person have a look at your rifle and check it for function and safety.

It really doesn't matter where or when it was made, if it belonged to your grandpa. The rifle will be a good way to remember him. Also, some less expensive imports can be fun to shoot. A lot of people got started with them.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thank you, Good advice. I'll poll the local ranges and shops before I start anything.

 

[kjberry]

I'd say definitely a 70s era import, probably from Spain. There were literally dozens of importers importing many variations of this type of rifle. The lack of proof marks on the barrel indicates it was probably imported as a kit. I am thinking the builder made it for you grandfather and added the patchbox as a nice touch.

Should certainly be safe to shoot if in good condition. No danger of the barrel exploding if it is undamaged and proper loads are used.

I have a pistol with an almost identical lock, that was inported from Spain by Markwell Arms if that is any help. It is also of the 70s era.

As mentioned, I'd try Track of the Wolf for replacement parts, or Deercreek, or Dixie Gun Works or any of a number of other Black Powder specialty vendors.

Opening the patch box it doesn't look to be professionally drilled out, more like some good carving tools were used. Track of the wolf and Dixie Guns, bookmarked. Thank you!

 

[Carbon 6]

It's a Miroku.

 

[kjberry]

If you are wanting to make it look nicer, I would wipe it down with Kramers Antique Restorer on the wood and metal. It will lift some of the dirt and grim. Other then that I would not do anything to the wood or metal finish.

Find someone local that can take you under their wing and help you with learning how to shoot this rifle safely.

Where are you from?

Fleener

Yep, wanting to clean it up, replace the missing pieces and new ramrod, find someone local to help me see if it'll shoot. Looking for a nice heirloom for my kids that remember their Great Grandpa. That Kramers will do nicely on my Marlin 1894S too I think? Thanks for the tip!

From Bakersfield Ca originally. Ultimately landed in Bossier City with USAF. So here I stay!