Looking to try date to this musket, as the markings are indistinct apart from the crown engraving it's 75 cal, wooden ramrod, is it an Indian Trader?

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

What is an Indian trader?

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Looks like a mix of parts, old and new from India to form a Bess. Some original, but that tock is certainly not. Maybe an old Indian Bess with a replaced handmade (poorly) stock. If the stock is original, then badly repaired and re-finished. The lock, lock plate and screws just do not look right to me. Again, maybe some original parts were used in the build...

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

What is an Indian trader?

A musket that was used as a trade item with North American Indians

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

Looks like a mix of parts, old and new from India to form a Bess. Some original, but that tock is certainly not. Maybe an old Indian Bess with a replaced handmade (poorly) stock. If the stock is original, then badly repaired and re-finished. The lock, lock plate and screws just do not look right to me. Again, maybe some original parts were used in the build...

Many thanks on your opinions, I still think it is a trade musket, it has a Brown Bess standard India pattern lock certainly, but the stock is something else, a Bessy lookalike, the butt is in the right place with a nice comb and wrist, but the swell is out of sync with a Bessy, plus the stock is very narrow with five ramrod pipes, I think the wooden lacquered ram gives it away as a trade item, probably done to save on steel, thought it was a very early pre 1722 bessy to begin with, Queen Anne, anyhow, it's at an auction in the UK, I want the lock for a reconversion to flintlock from percussion for an 1805 Bessy, thanks for your input.

 

[tenngun]

There was the kings muskets. For all the talk of too much drop or swells in the wrong place ect every original I’ve ever seen was pretty varied
But
I ain’t no sort of student of bess history
However I would point out that even back in the day Bess knockoffs were made.
The crown handed out letters of marque, and even just plain merchantmen often had a lot of Bess like muskets onboard
Then the Dutch often had Bess like guns on its privately owned ships.
East India, HBC and NW also bought Bess like guns used by the traders, not for trade
These were not built to the kings standard but could resemble them.

 

[2 shots]

looks like an early one screw [ behind cock] lock, not india pattern .

 

[Sam squanch]

African trade gun maybe.

 

[Clark Badgett]

It’s a 1755 style lock with odd cock. Short land style side plate. Can’t see the trigger guard or butt plate. It’s a horrendous collection of parts that may or may not be original parts.

 

[Sam squanch]

If it’s a horrendous collection of parts- African trade gun! Or my first muzzle loader build!

 

[Clark Badgett]

If it’s a horrendous collection of parts- African trade gun! Or my first muzzle loader build!

My first build wasn’t the brightest shining star in the universe either.

 

[54ball]

Uhhh.....
Nothing looks legit.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Many thanks on your opinions, I still think it is a trade musket, it has a Brown Bess standard India pattern lock certainly, but the stock is something else, a Bessy lookalike, the butt is in the right place with a nice comb and wrist, but the swell is out of sync with a Bessy, plus the stock is very narrow with five ramrod pipes, I think the wooden lacquered ram gives it away as a trade item, probably done to save on steel, thought it was a very early pre 1722 bessy to begin with, Queen Anne, anyhow, it's at an auction in the UK, I want the lock for a reconversion to flintlock from percussion for an 1805 Bessy, thanks for your input.

Ok, what ever you say man.

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

Ok, what ever you say man.

Thanks for your help, most appreciated, it's exactly what I came here for.

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

African trade gun maybe.

Perhaps, my thoughts as well.

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

It’s a 1755 style lock with odd cock. Short land style side plate. Can’t see the trigger guard or butt plate. It’s a horrendous collection of parts that may or may not be original parts.

Nice to hear your thoughts on the lock, what exactly gives it away as a 1755 lock, keen to learn. Many thanks for your help.

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

looks like an early one screw [ behind cock] lock, not india pattern .

Hmm, interesting, have to look I to that, thanks.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Nice to hear your thoughts on the lock, what exactly gives it away as a 1755 lock, keen to learn. Many thanks for your help.

Bottom edge of lock is less curved than the 1740 lock and has the single exposed screw behind the cock. The 1777 lock had 2 exposed screws. The cock is a hybrid of type 1 and type 2 India patterns.

I doubt there would have been an Indian on the North American continent that would have traded for that ugly thing.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Thanks for your help, most appreciated, it's exactly what I came here for.

Actually, I was mocking you. You listen to people who know about this stuff and then blow off what they say and go with your own conclusions. Good luck.

 

[hampdenhousealnwick@gmail]

Of course you were and you were counter mocked, here here little fishy, hook line and sinker, people like you should go and seek some mental health advice, I countered you because you're an unwelcoming so and so, have a good day and don't bother replying, thanks.