Loose Brass Frame

[nkbj]

How many here have actually shot a brass revolver frame until it became loose?
.36? Ballpark, how many rounds?
.44? Ballpark, how many rounds?

Do you think the charges going off were of greater effect than cramming the ball down on full chambers?

I've only seen one get loose.

 

[Mr. Troll]

I have a .36 brasser that I built from parts sourced all over the place. It's been good, until the other day. Suddenly the arbor threads stripped out of the frame after a shot. Didn't come all the way out, but the barrel got loose and wobbly. At first, I thought the wedge was backed out...but it wasn't... :cursing: I have no idea how old or what ever, the frame is. It had no serial numbers or proof marks on it....I did overload my 1851 .44, at first, until I noticed that it was printing the frame and the cylinder air gap had increased slightly...

 

[Billnpatti]

I have never done any experimentation to have good numbers for you but I am of the opinion (S.W.A.G.) that the breach pressure of firing too big of a charge will have a greater effect on the frame than the force generated by seating a ball on a fully charged chamber. I don't know what the breach pressure is when firing a load of, say, 30 grains of 3f powder but I know it is in the several thousand psi range. Certainly, using great force to set a ball can, and often does, have a bad result from damaging or breaking the ram (is that the correct term?). I don't know, but I seriously doubt, that you can get enough force on the ram, before breaking it, to damage the frame by stretching it.

 

[Artificer]

North South Skirmish Association Shooters shoot their Revolvers a whole bunch, but almost always with light target loads. So they wear out the threads in the brass (actually bronze frames) faster than almost anyone else. It is the shooting that causes the wear and not the loading. Though I can't tell you how many rounds before the frame loosens, it is a lot less than steel frame revolvers.

I did not work near as many revolvers as muskets and Smith, Sharps and other carbines over the years; but I know I silver soldered at least a half dozen bronze frames and never was asked to do it with a steel frame revolver.

Gus

 

[ZUG]

Had a brass frame Dixie .31 cal Baby Dragoon kit that was unsafe to shoot after about 400 rounds. Gave it to a buddy as a wall hanger.

 

[cynthialee]

I have never worn a brass frame pistol out in about 30+ years of BP revolver shooting. But I am afraid of destroying them with overloads and I rarely shoot with more than 18-22 grains. Sometimes I might go with a 30 grain charge but after a cylinder of them I feel bad for hot loading my revolver and don't do it again.
I also have a habit of selling off a gun after a few years due to boredom, finances or desire for some other gun. Guess they don't stick around. I do have one Pietta .44 brass frame I have had for 9 years. Nothing special about this pistol, but I do seem to be attached to it more than any other gun I have owned. So it doesn't get shot a lot. I think the fact that I have the detachable shoulder stock for it makes it more desirable for me.
Also when I go out into the yard to shoot I tend to drag a number of guns out with me, so no one gun is getting used a lot. Not that I am trying to save on wear and tear, just I want to shoot them all. They get turns.

 

[robinsroost]

I have the 1851, .44 caliber Confederate Navy, (I know that there was never such a firearm), and I was told that as long as I kept the charges at no more than 25 grains of 3fg I would be ok. Maybe I should try 2fg. Keep yer powder dry.....robin :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

I have heard the same thing.
And I have used 2f in a pistol and it just isn't quite right. 3f performs better as far as I can tell. But 2f would save on wear and tear.

 

[M. De Land]

Gus, I've been on the look out for a beat up derelict bronze frame revolver as I have and idea of pulling the arbor and turning a steel bushing to fit the arbor threads and then shoulder fit it to silver solder into the frame. This makes a larger area foot or base anchor.
I think the problem with stretching in brass frames is from the arbor being pulled on a slight angle from projectile friction. The soft bronze distorts over time from bullet pull and then on the other side of co-axis ball seating under the loading lever.
Sort of like worrying a post out of the ground by a back and forth levering.
My guess is this action is what loosens the arbor threads on bronze frame guns over time.

 

[bob308]

the only time I have ever saw a arbor come out was when they were using balls cast of wheel weights.

I once made a offer about 2 years ago. I would buy both a .36 and a .44 brass frame and supply the lead and let some one else buy the caps and powder and I would shoot them till they came lose. no one took me up on it.

 

[mooman76]

I bought a 36 Navy from a friend cheap because the frame was loose thinking I could fix or buy a new frame. A new frame cost almost as much as a new gun and I could get a used gun for cheaper. Anyway, no idea how many rounds were fired but I asked him what loads he was using. He said he didn't know, he just filled up the cylinders with powder and seated a ball and shot it. Anyway, I never fixed it but did replace it with a good used one so it's a parts gun or a wall hanger.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Brass frames "shooting loose" is a misleading statement. I have indeed seen brass framed revolvers that virtually rattled from extended use of heavy loads but even more that weren't technically "loose" in the regards of being out of time and shaving lead on ignition. The shooter may or may not be aware but anyone off to the side my enjoy a sting of shaved lead!
With moderate loads many will shoot for years before timing becomes a major issue. I'd also like to repeat the the comment above that these frames are not true brass but gun bronze. Not to get too technically far afield, it's a mix of copper and tin, though other things like lead and zinc were mixed in to get "gunmetal" or "red bronze". Pure brass or brass in a mixture would be far too soft to used to make firearms, even for low pressure loads.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, I've been on the look out for a beat up derelict bronze frame revolver as I have and idea of pulling the arbor and turning a steel bushing to fit the arbor threads and then shoulder fit it to silver solder into the frame. This makes a larger area foot or base anchor.

Sounds like you may be on to something there, but the cost of such a repair (even if one is doing it for oneself) sounds like a lot more trouble than it is worth. I realize it may be interesting to do it one time just for the knowledge and self satisfaction of doing it, though.

I think the problem with stretching in brass frames is from the arbor being pulled on a slight angle from projectile friction. The soft bronze distorts over time from bullet pull and then on the other side of co-axis ball seating under the loading lever.
Sort of like worrying a post out of the ground by a back and forth levering.
My guess is this action is what loosens the arbor threads on bronze frame guns over time.

Interesting idea of it acting like worrying a post out of the ground. Could well be that is what happens.

Not sure what the retail difference is between Bronze and Steel Frames nowadays, but it never used to be worth it for how quickly the Bronze frames got loose.

Gus

 

[crockett]

A guy at a local muzzle loading shop has a brass frame .36 and uses light loads and claimed either 10,000 or 25,000 rounds- I forget. It seems other parts of the revolver would wear out at that rate.
The originals were .36 caliber, probably that small caliber and powder charge will last longer. If a brass frame has lead build up on the end of the barrel then getting it timed and lined up right ought to help.

 

[ZUG]

A guy at a local muzzle loading shop has a brass frame .36 and uses light loads and claimed either 10,000 or 25,000 rounds- I forget. It seems other parts of the revolver would wear out at that rate.

I think this guy is "smoking something" :hmm: I would stay FAR away from him :wink: :v

 

[M. De Land]

I often wonder if the guys making these claims have any idea how long it takes to run 10,000 rounds through a cap-n-ball revolver, let alone 25,000.
Even a regular match shooter will take several years to do the lower number and none of them use bronze frame guns.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I bet this same guy never gets less than his limit of fish, ducks, or shoots a white tail less than 10 points too.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

For 1) the possibility that a brass-framed revolver may be more prone to loosen up than a steel-framed one 2) that almost all originals (100% of Colts and Remingtons) were built with steel frames and 3) that there is no shortage of good and reasonably priced steel-framed revolvers; I don't see any good reason to have any but revolvers built with steel frames instead of brass.

 

[nkbj]

I have missed out on a couple of .36 brass frame 1851's lately. Dangit.

 

[crockett]

He seemed honest but on the other hand this guy was claiming Davy Crockett used a 36 caliber on bear so it was a "bear gun", at least if the bear was treed and you shot it in the head. I've shot 6,000 plus out of a modern Smith and Wesson and as I said, other areas start wearing out.
Question, the Confederate "brass" frame revolvers, were they a bronze that stood up better to wear than today's replicas?