LOP Issues

[Are. M.]

Seeking knowledge:

I see a lot of folks take issue with Length of Pull on here. I'm not a small guy and having shot many rifles (well) with various lengths of pull, I find it hard to believe that the difference between 14½" and 13" will make or break a shooter (unless you're Bill Brasky). Some of the most popular, well-loved, lever-action unmentionables built ca. 1866 have a 12½"-13.38" length of pull.

So what's the deal? Why ask that question in every sale ad for production rifles? I can see it being a factor in a nice, custom build, but for regular schmos, does it matter that much?

RM

 

[R Ellis]

YES it matters to me I am 6 ft 5 in I shoot better with a longer LOP

 

[Rod Man]

I am not a big fella, for many years I shot factory stocked guns with generic LOP's. I did OK, made it work so to speak, but then one day I had a custom gun made and its all the difference in the world to me. Will never go back. Same for cast on a shotgun. Once you get one fixed up and fitted to you its hard to go back to generic fitting stocks.

JMHO

RM

 

[ord sgt]

LOP has an effect on trigger finger placement. Too long or too short the LOP can push or pull the sights off the target, depending on the trigger pull weight.

 

[doubleset]

In general, a slight difference in LOP for most practical purposes may not make much difference in comfort and results. But a larger difference in LOP, at least for me, makes a noticeable difference in comfort, automatically mounting the gun correctly, and consistency of shooting (mostly because of consistency of cheek weld and sight picture). If you do any kind of "precision shooting", it can become quite important. Currently all of my long guns have standard "as sold" stocks -- except one. That one is my CZ target/varmint .22, that has about a 1.5 lb. trigger, a 6-24x scope, and an aftermarket stock on it; and is almost always shot on bags off the bench. On that rifle I have added spacers to move the butt plate back to closer to 14".

I'm just starting to get back into shotgun sports (after about a 35 year hiatus) and can tell that the LOP on my CZ .28 ga. Woodcock O/U is a bit short for me. With a shotgun, it doesn't matter quite as much as with a precision rifle, but getting the LOP just right does have an effect on consistency and lower level of irritation. So it will likely get at least a thin spacer or thicker butt pad when I get around to it.

For my BP guns and how I shoot them casually, "close enough is good enough". But for other people, I'm sure that's not true.

 

[SOLANCO]

Watched a bunch of elder statesmen shooting clay birds at the club. They invited me to try my hand. All of their guns were modified for fit in the manner of the shade tree mechanic. Spacers, glued on blocks of wood, layers of moleskin, etc etc. A guy who matched my dimensions pretty well handed me his gun. I could not miss! I didn't want to give the gun back!!

I have a Paul Jaeger built custom Model 70 unmentionable. I love the rifle but it is difficult for me to shoot well. The guy that stock fits is a good bit smaller than me. On production unmentionables I have found that adding a thick recoil pad helps me. This has me thinking of trying a slip on recoil pad on one of my ML rifles.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

My experience is length-of-pull, drop, and cast all matter and they have a cumulative effect because the sighting moves in three dimensions when you changed those measurements. Very small differences in length-of-pull, in my experience, do not matter a whole lot, but when you start talking upwards of an inch as you mention, you're making changes that strongly affect the fit. I would hesitate to buy a rifle that's an inch or more off in length-of-pull from what you're looking for. I might fudge it a quarter inch or something like that, but at an inch+, you could end up way off.

 

[doubleset]

Watched a bunch of elder statesmen shooting clay birds at the club. They invited me to try my hand. All of their guns were modified for fit in the manner of the shade tree mechanic. Spacers, glued on blocks of wood, layers of moleskin, etc etc.

On my CZ 455 I use short lengths of 1/2" PVC for the spacers. It actually looks pretty cool -- like a "skeletonized" butt stock. It's a startling-looking little rifle with that big scope, the recoil pad spacers, and because I managed to catch the stock on sale in part because it's one of the bright red "Applejack Laminate" Boyd stocks. I thought that would be pretty garish, but it was really cheap, and I've come to love it. If I'd paid full price, I would have had them make it with a longer LOP than the standard 13 3/4" it came with.

 

[SOLANCO]

My experience is length-of-pull, drop, and cast all matter and they have a cumulative effect because the sighting moves in three dimensions when you changed those measurements. Very small differences in length-of-pull, in my experience, do not matter a whole lot, but when you start talking upwards of an inch as you mention, you're making changes that strongly affect the fit. I would hesitate to buy a rifle that's an inch or more off in length-of-pull from what you're looking for. I might fudge it a quarter inch or something like that, but at an inch+, you could end up way off.

Some things I just cannot explain. Especially in my firearm passions. Flintlock rifles not percussion. SxS shotguns over any others. Savage 99's. M1 Garands.
Except for a built to order flintlock rifle, I can not recall the last time I purchased a new firearm, rather than a used one. I doubt that Savage ever built a 99 that fit me. NEVER met an M1 in my dimensions. But those two are examples of rifles I have a passion for. So....I either do impermanent stock alterations, like butt pads, or bend myself to fit the gun. (Remember that in basic training?)

 

[mushka]

I have always been able to shoot long guns with shorter stocks better than one's with longer stocks. I don't like a lot of drop at the butt as there is in a lot of BP guns. A shorter pull length works better for me during cold times wearing thick clothing. I live where it's mostly temperate or hot so short is good for me. Everyone has preferences and they find out overtime what they are.

 

[doubleset]

SxS shotguns

I love them -- in the abstract. Just find O/Us easier to hit something with.

Savage 99's

I ALWAYS wanted one of these. Never had the money or the reasonable excuse to get one. One of the major failures in my life.

M1 Garands.

Never enamored with them. But I did have an M14 that I reloaded for and shot in competition. Overall, however, I'm not much on semi-autos. Just a matter of taste. A K31 and a Swedish Mauser carbine sit in my gun safe.

 

[Are. M.]

Easy with the unmentionables, boys. The MLF-PD will be hunting heads.

 

[deermanok]

I'm of average height and build. 5'9, 165 pounds.
Pretty much everything off the rack fits me ok.

 

[hanshi]

Big lop differences can have a major impact with shooters. I'm a little guy and all my MLs are 13" or 12.5". I do well with both but the 12.5" is what I call perfect. I always found, generally, that long guns (not smoothbores) were difficult to shoot well because I could not usually get close enough to the scope to see very well. Any ML with a longer lop than 13" is a chore to shoot. Also found that lops a little shorter than 12.5" - say just 12" - is just fine with me. Jeff Cooper himself wrote that it's easier for taller guys to adapt to and shoot short lop rifles than it is for short guys to shoot longer lop guns.

 

[doubleset]

Jeff Cooper himself wrote that it's easier for taller guys to adapt to and shoot short lop rifles than it is for short guys to shoot longer lop guns.

And I'm sure that's true ... but it's not fun.

 

[LME]

I'm of average height and build. 5'9, 165 pounds.
Pretty much everything off the rack fits me ok.

I'm six one and a rifle off the rack shoots fine for me?

 

[ohio ramrod]

For bench shooting it makes little difference, for off hand shooting a properly fitted rifle or shotgun will make all of the difference.

 

[doubleset]

I'm six one and a rifle off the rack shoots fine for me?

Height is really what we in the biomed world call a "surrogate indicator". What really matters is your arm length, length of neck, maybe head size/shape.

 

[doubleset]

For bench shooting it makes little difference, for off hand shooting a properly fitted rifle or shotgun will make all of the difference.

Makes a huge difference to me for bench shooting.

 

[Brokennock]

I find it hard to believe that the difference between 14½" and 13" will make or break a shooter

Yes it can. Fit is for more important with gowling pieces and shotguns, but even with a rifle and in to inch and a half is a lot when dealing with changes of clothing based on weather and changes of shooting position. With my 14" length of pull smoothrifle, there are some positions I just can't shoot from with all my winter layers on.

So what's the deal? Why ask that question in every sale ad for production rifles?

Again, more important, and I always ask, for a smoothbore. Of the gun doesn't fit correctly your eye, which is the rear sight when the gun doesn't have one, doesn't land in the same place every time. The gun needs to point where you are looking.
If it is too long, one might not be able to get their face in the right spot on the stock to even use the sights properly on a rifle and may not be able to get the correct trigger finger position.
As has been mentioned, it is easier to deal with a l.o.p. slightly too short, than one that is too long,,,,, within reason.
Where the length of pull is too long can make a difference too. I have a gun that would be about perfect but it is too long in the wrist making hand position and trigger reach difficult.