Lost Accuracy with rolled paper cartridges, either 36 cal. Or 44 cal.

[Tenring]

I just recently after about 20 years of shooting cap and ball revolvers 36 and 44 started really using my home pre made paper cartridges just for the sake of time really , have noticed after about two or three cylinder loads my accuracy will really drift , it’s not like that when I load powder wad and projectile straight in the cylinder . And yes they are pre lubed wads my own. Maybe I just should abandon the paper cartridges, there great for smacking steel and cans accuracy really is neither here or there you know what I mean When your not shooting for groups.

 

[rodwha]

I haven’t noticed that myself. I use Gatofeo’s #1 lube on my bullets.

 

[No second place]

Depends on your goal. Plinking and playing with pre-loaded types at 15yds or less with more speed works great. Target practice for matches at 25 & 50 yards not so much...c

 

[Tenring]

This is true,

 

[Spartan64]

I've noticed the same with my attempts at paper cartridges. I've never been able to get target accuracy out of them.

I think the accuracy problem is from inconsistent paper combustion. Perfectly fine for plinking at 10-15 yards and for man sized targets well past that, but not for precision shooting.

 

[Whughett]

I get unburned paper build up in bottom of chamber. The ends papers don’t seem to burn off. Too much Elmer's perhaps. I think that contributes to decline in accuracy as the number of shots increases.

 

[Tenring]

Whughett you could be right, I don’t use Elmers but I do have a build up in the bottoms of the chambers also .

 

[smoothshooter]

I just recently after about 20 years of shooting cap and ball revolvers 36 and 44 started really using my home pre made paper cartridges just for the sake of time really , have noticed after about two or three cylinder loads my accuracy will really drift , it’s not like that when I load powder wad and projectile straight in the cylinder . And yes they are pre lubed wads my own. Maybe I just should abandon the paper cartridges, there great for smacking steel and cans accuracy really is neither here or there you know what I mean When your not shooting for groups.

Make paper cartridges that are NOT loaded in the chamber, but torn open to pour the powder, extract the lubed wad from the cartridge to place it in the chamber, and do the same with the ball. Discard leftover paper.
Works pretty well.

 

[Tenring]

I am going to have to give this a try. Thanks

 

[Brokenbear]

Try cellulose glue ..which is flammable as well as 5/8" circle ..not 3/4" to reduce bottom of chamber debris ...also as a debris reducer use only one layer of paper with just a 3/16" over lap
Cut the paper length to fit just below the projectile engaging area (like on a round ball let the paper ONLY make contact with the lower 40% of the ball)
No wad but dipped in 50/50 olive oil and bee's wax ..dipped projectile first up to the bottom of ball/projectile

I'm old at rifles and new at revolvers ..been working on paper ctg for a couple of months so certainly no expert ..but I too experienced degraded accuracy when paper ..any kind of paper became involved in the loading process where the ram was shearing paper AND lead as I loaded it

So now with the above process when I swage the paper cartridge into the chamber I get a little wax ring with a little lead ring encased in the wax

Just an idea

Bear

 

[Tenring]

I have been putting powder wad and projectile in the paper cartridges, maybe the wad is what is throwing things off after a few cylinders. Have been using 18 gr. In the 36 cal.

 

[Red Owl]

I think they are subject to run out, the conical getting out of alignment as it is rammed.

 

[Tenring]

I wish I new how to post a picture I would show one of my rolled cartridges, and by the way I got some paper from my sister in law called angelcraft it’s thinner than cigarette paper and very lite so I am going to roll a few with it and see if any non burnt residue is left at the bottom, it’s worth a try. And yes to your input Red Owl I think also that conicals can go out of alignment with the heel of the projectile being short. It gets canted .

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

My experience also shows a decrease in accuracy (due to lack of consistency) in using paper cartridges. With poured powder, seated ball, and lube you have no variables. A little more paper in your 'twist" or a little more "wrap" around your ball, or different positioning of the powder in the paper are all variables. I have never seen a competitive shooter use paper cartridges. Howcum? It is not conducive to good groups. Fun? Yes! Faster? YES. Better? Depends on your goals.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Tenring]

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to convey to every one, there are just to many different things going on to try and keep things at a constant. Thank you ADK Bigfoot for your input to the forum, you understand….

 

[Whughett]

My experience also shows a decrease in accuracy (due to lack of consistency) in using paper cartridges. With poured powder, seated ball, and lube you have no variables. A little more paper in your 'twist" or a little more "wrap" around your ball, or different positioning of the powder in the paper are all variables. I have never seen a competitive shooter use paper cartridges. Howcum? It is not conducive to good groups. Fun? Yes! Faster? YES. Better? Depends on your goals.

ADK Bigfoot

Faster loading at the range or in the field. Paper cartridge making its self is slow and tedious or at least for these older hands. I’ve basically given up on it. I throw charges at home into the nifty little vinyl tubes, yellow for 44, white for 36, for 48 rounds and cap it with a round ball. At the range it’s just pour the powder and seat the ball, cap and go and as mention more conducive to accuracy shot to shot.

 

[Tenring]

When we think about loading cap and ball in our minds we know it’s just going to be a slow process therefore the creativity side of us comes out and thinks of new ways to go faster.

 

[Red Owl]

I did the same thing except I made a hundred paper tubes with caps that fit in a plastic ammo box. Pretty fast and round balls instead of conicals.
For the "period correct" types, the original combustible cartridges came in wood boxes about the size of a deck of cards. There was a paper label over the openings for the cartridges and a rip cord. You pulled the rip cord- to take off the label and then dumped out the cartridges. A couple of manufacturers have an additional cavity with caps.
It was a technology ahead of its day. On the cartridge "Peacemaker" you had to remove the old, spent cases and then put in the new rounds. It was faster than the percussion but not by much.

 

[Tenring]

That’s a good idea with the paper tubes and round balls with caps.

 

[Tenring]

It’s not that I am an accuracy nut but I would like my shots to be a little consistent from cylinder to cylinder full. That’s why I think I am going to just do the preloaded volume containers do the powder dump add one of my lamb lard bees wax wads and cram a projectile down on the mess and call it a day, because this gives me the best shot placement I can ask for even with my spaghetti made open top colt trash with very very poor *** sites on them, I kid of course it’s all good Ha Ha…