Lubing them big bullets???

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Rafsob

40 Cal.
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I found what seems to be a good source for Maxiballs:
[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/...=1364&osCsid=8680f598007fd1b4e437d7b3ade4c287[/url]

Only problem is you have to lube them yourself. I got some lube, but started to look and see if I could use my RCBS Lube-a-matic for these .54 cal. Well I see that the stuff I would need doesn't go that big. :hmm:

So I got to thinking how do other guys lube their bullets without the luxury of a modern device?

Help.
 
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I lube minie balls in a 50/50 mix of wonderlube and beeswax, or crisco and beeswax, or spg and beeswax. Typically I'm shooting 10-15 rounds before having to wipe, but a minie ball is .001-.002 under bore diamter. Since maxi balls are bore diameter, perhaps you won't achieve as many shoots without cleaning.

The lube is applied hot. I melt the wax and wonderlube or spg or crisco in a musket tin, and dip the bullets in the lube.
 
Bore Butter! Some folks place the projectiles in a tray or other device to coat them, and some just give-em a schmere at the firing line prior to pushing them "down the throat".

Heat /cold has alot to do with how you prefer to handle them too I think. If it's too hot, the lube gets a little runny, if it's too cold the lube can be too thick to work around all sides.

Some of us, like me, prefer to just pay for boxed conicals to avoid most of the mess. I do however have a couple of bags of conicals without lube if one of my friends just wants to "plink". No need to use competition ammo :winking: .

Nice thing about shooting conicals is you don't have to use a brush and you don't get a crud ring! At the range on Friday, I shot half a pound of 3F, 50 shots at 70 gr. per charge and didn't have to do a thing!

May you enjoy shooting conicals as well!

Dave
 
TC makes a neat little deal that screws onto a tube of 1000+. It's a T shape and comes in .45, .50 and .54. You push the bullet into the T and squeeze the tube. It fills the grooves and then you push it on out with the next bullet. It works best if the lube is very warm. Cost a couple bucks. Probably have to look on the TC web site to find them.

You can also put other types of lube in the tube if you like.

I'd sure like to find a device that the T would fit that would be easier to fill than the 1000+ tube. A grease gun would be perfect!!
 
A TC Pre-luber is pictured in this interesting thread:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/202168/post/359932/#359932[/url]
 
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In my Lyman rifles fully lubed Maxi-Balls shoot far less accurate than if coated with Alox. The same goes for all of the conicals I cast and shoot. I have abandoned the practice of lubing them with Bore Butter or the like. A coat of alox with a lubed wad underneath provides far superior accuracy for me and fouling is not a big issue.

HD
 
I suspect that the lubed wad behind the bullet is responsible more for the improved accuracy, than the choice of lubes. I do like Alox. However, protecting the base of the bullet from hot gases burning and melting it as it goes down the barrel seems to make a lot of difference in group sizes, and also seems to eliminate " flyers ", unless the barrel is badly bedded. :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
I've always questioned the idea that the base of the bullet burns or melts. I've recovered quite a few as well as slugs fired from 45-70 bp loads and have never seen any sign that the base of the bullet is damaged or melted. Could be wrong on that of course.

While I have the TC luber handy, most of the time i just smear lube on the bullet as it is loaded without much regard for how much lube is applied.

The worst thing for accuracy from my experieince is the build of of the crud ring if the bore is not wiped before each shot. If the crud ring is left, the accuracy gradually deteriorates as more shots are fired.
 
That may vary depending on whether you are shooting pure lead, or an alloy of some combination. Our hard cast pistol bullets shot fine in our .367 mganum with no evidence of melting, but they were as hard as wheelweights, or maybe harder! You might read the opening text from Steve Garbe's Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Manual, where he and Steve Venturini have spent much time explaining exactly how they load their ammo to get those 2 1/2" groups at 200 yds. using a Tang Peep sight, and a .40-65 or .45-70 rifle. They cover everything from the choice of casings, primers, powder wads and bullets, to how they position the bullets in the casings for consistency, and how they position the casings in the chamber for consistency. Add to that the latest writings of Matthews concerning primer pocket size, and using small pistol primers rather than large rifle primers to get even better accuracy( from the Single Shot Exchange), and you can squeeze out all the accuracy that fine barrel was made to give you shooting black powder. But, in the end, if you don't clean that barrel, everything else you do is wasted. You are right on that point. For other readers, we are talking about milking the most accuracy out of a rifle for the sake of long range shooting and small groups. Hunting accuracy rarely demands this kind of atteniton to loads, and no one but an moron would ever shoot at live game at the long ranges used today to shoot at targets with these guns. Respect for the game we hunt demands that we get much closer so that we have a decent chance of taking a second shot to humanely finish an animal that is wounded because something unforeseen occurs, like a gust of wind just as we release the trigger, a twig 20 yards in front of the animal that we didn't see, the animal turning so that we hit forward, or back of our aiming point, etc.
 
paulvallandigham said:
I suspect that the lubed wad behind the bullet is responsible more for the improved accuracy, than the choice of lubes. I do like Alox. However, protecting the base of the bullet from hot gases burning and melting it as it goes down the barrel seems to make a lot of difference in group sizes, and also seems to eliminate " flyers ", unless the barrel is badly bedded. :hmm: :thumbsup:

The lubed wad is not a necessary part of my accurate load combination. I get the same accuracy without it. I use the lubed wad more to act as a bore swab on loading and think the little bit of lube in it helps to keep fouling softer.
I do agree that some bullets shoot far better with a wad. However, this is not the case with my particular rifle.
:hatsoff:

HD
 
Paul, I'm refering to pure lead and in the 45-70 both pure lead and 1:30. Just never saw any sign of burning or melting.

I have the Garbe/Venturino bp loading guide as well as several others. None of them completely agree with each other so I just go on my own observations. JS Wolfe wrote on suplicating the 45-70 govt loads, none of which used a wad except as a filler for some of the carbine loads. The full house 45-70-500 load sat right on the bp.

The Venturino/Garbe book is loaded with great info but I still can't see a load melting a bullet base when the same load with a tablet backing wad does not burn the cardboard! :shocked2:

Bill Bagwell, one of the top 1,000 yard shooters in the country uses 70 grains of goex 3f express, and a 530 grain postel with nothing between the bullet base and powder but a circle of plain old kitchen waxed paper!

Not saying you are wrong on this, but being a skeptic on just about any topic the old "show me" mind set is hard to escape. Not from Missouri, but the wife is so maybe I caught it from her. She sure has been skeptical of me for the past 38 years! :)
 
My brother got some 1:20 tin to lead mixture, and found it cast beautiful bullets. He played around with a hollow point bullet at 350 grains in his Marlin 1895 to work up a load for Elk. He finally settled on using a Walter's Fibre Wad, puf lon filler, and a charge of smokeless powder to get his best accuracy.

I suspect that as usual, every gun is a beast unto its own. He got better SDV using the wad to protect the base, and seal the bullet from gas blow by. I doubt that anyone can see much of a difference using wads to protect the base until you are shooting at 600 yds and beyond, and then it depends on how many lands and grooves, and how deep the rifling is. Garbe holds several national titles, so I am inclined to pay attention to what he suggests. Obviously, since he won his titles, others have also come along, and the entire wheel has been re-invented, filling in gaps left by shooters who were too ornery to write things down for posterity.

I always try new things with and with out, and see if adding something improves accuracy for me. And, when something does not work for me as advertised, I have been known to hunt the author down and call him direct to find out what I am doing right or wrong. Sometimes things are left out of written articles and books by editors who would not know the muzzle from the butt of a gun.
 
paulvallandigham said:
.

Garbe holds several national titles, so I am inclined to pay attention to what he suggests. Obviously, since he won his titles, others have also come along, and the entire wheel has been re-invented, filling in gaps left by shooters who were too ornery to write things down for posterity.

It's worth noting that Garbe and Venturino changed some of their loading ideas in the second edition of their book. I don't have that second edition but am going on what is said by those who do have it.

I've recovered quite a few conicals from my .50 from the berm at 50 and 100 yards but never kept any of them. Never saw any sign of gas cutting or damage to the base of the bullet. My typical loads with conicals from the .50 were 80 to 100 grains of ff and sometimes fff.

Next range visit I'll shoot a few and recover them for closer examination. Been a long time since I've shot any conicals but do have some 370 gr maxi balls that I cast about five years ago from pure lead.

You could suggest that your brother try the Lee 405 grain rnfp (not hollow base) with 26 to 32 grains of aa 5744. My hi wall broke clay birds 30% at two hundred meters with the 32 grain charge but might do better with a little less powder.
 
I recently bought some 50 cal maxiballs from Dixie, and took them to the range a couple days ago. They loaded very easily, which may indicate an undersized bullet, and the accuracy indicates the same. One or two shots in a group would be reasonably on point of aim, one or two would be a foot or so off in most any direction. Almost like throwing rocks. Disappointing, since I have usually been satisfied with Dixie stuff.

Maxiballs from a different source give me two to three inch groups at 50 yds.

I would be interested in your experience with them.

BTW, I lube with a combination of beeswax, mutton tallow, and parafin, in a 1-1-2 ratio. Pour it melted and use a cookie cutter after it hardens.
 
Thanks. We have an old Lyman 405 gr. mold that casts well, as well as lyman molds in 300 Grains, 350, and a Rapine mold in 330 HP. With the alloy mix he used, that HP actually weighs 350- go figure. The 300 and 330 were bought to use for deer and elk. The heaviers solids were for moose, caribou and bear. There are some after market bullets available like the 430 gr. CorBon, that is simply excellent at these velocities( 1500-1800fps), on heavy game.
 
Paul,

The T/C .50 cal. 370 gr Maxi's I use do quite well alone. After 2-3 sighters, the bore fouls and I get less blow-by which results in a closer SDV. I am however, after seeing what you write about, considering trying the cards or wads you speak of. Do you make them yourself or are they available commercially? Also, how do you keep them from turning sideways as you push them down the muzzle? Are they glued to the bottom of the Maxi, or is there a trick to it?

Sorry for all the stupid questions, I just got back from a really big Italian wedding, having 1200 exposures to now edit.

Still hearing the loud music,

Dave
 
I believe that Ox-Yoke, or its successor sells " wonder wads " in .50 caliber, and you can order them from Walter's fibre Wads. He's in Oklahoma, I believe. He advertises in the Single Shot Exchange, as well as elsewhere. If you can't find an address, let me know by PM and I will get one for him to give to you.

I had been working with fillers, such as cream of wheat, corn meal, and this winter a couple of people found wasp and hornet's nest and sent them to me. Wen the weather is less windy, I want to spend a morning at the bench trying these various fillers over the chronograph, to see how well they work. I will report, of course.

I tried the wads at the suggestion of my twin brother, Peter, who decided to do something different than I was doing. We often do this, so we can cover more " ground " together. I can tell you that the fibre wads had my .50 cal. rifle hitting an inch higher than when I shot the gun without them. I have to check the load again on the chronograph to see what is happening with the velocity. I have been shooting a plain, lubed PRB in that .50 for years, and this was not expected when it happened. I was shooting prone, off a rest, and that may explain everything that I saw happen on the target, but that gun with my load should have been right on at 50 yds.
 
You mean to tell us that there's two of YOU in this world? Mom & Dad must have been REAL proud!

Firing from the prone position (not on a rest) always causes my POI to change due to the fact I have short arms and can't quite see the sights the same way. But only a 1 inch change at 50 yds. doesn't seem to be a sighting situation to me. If the cards act like a gas check, then the velocity should increase slightly and therefore where the bullet (Maxi) hits should be a little higher.

My regular supplier of wonder-wads is Dixons in PA. I'll give Chuck a call on Monday and order some for the .50 cal. I guess that I'll just push them down the muzzle with the jag attached to my range rod...but how do you keep them from not going "off-center" as they go down the bore? Or maybe this isn't a problem because they have a little "give" like the wonder-wads I use for the revolver?

Our regular BP league competition is on May 6th, so I think that I'll be headed to the range BEFORE the match to see what the wads do for the Maxi's. Won the April match with a score of 129x150, beating-out the entire PRB division, using the Maxi's in the trade rifle with the primitive sights that came with it...just adjusted them once with a hammer and a block of wood and left them alone :winking: .

I'm a believer in good-ole Kentucky windage & elevation, based upon such variables as wind, type of load (target, hunting, PRB, Maxi), temperature & humidity conditions, etc.
Especially since I have to adjust my sights with a hammer!

Thanks again Paul for your quick response. My son Andy and I are headed to a novelty shoot at the primitive club we both belong to. They let us use our capguns and we don't make fun of their flinchlocks :haha: . Again friend, thanks.

All the best, Dave
 
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