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Lyman GPR...or not?

L & R
the hawken shop
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I have the GPR 54 flint and have hunted with it. I've shot hundreds of rounds through it and haven't notice any problems with patches being cut. They do apparently only surface harden the frizzen b/c I did have trouble with it not sparking a few yrs ago, but I had a shop in Fairmont, WV weld on a piece of saw blade and it sparks great now. I have a Pedersoli flint in 32 cal and I like the lock on that rifle better than the Lyman.
 
My GPR in .50 which I've had for more than 25 years, is fine. Very accurate. I got it from Cabelas in 1995. The wood was very good European Walnut. I immediately removed the blue steel and browned it, for some reason. It shot very well and still does.
 
Well, the decision's been made.

It was kinda sealed today when a gent reminded that "Remember, these rifles are made to work. Not pretty toys." It kinda made me think that a real mountain man would buy the GPR and never look back. I'm also reminded of Alexander McKeag. When he and Pasquinel went to rendezvous, Pasquinel told McKeag he could buy a new rifle. McKeag replied that there was nothing wrong with the one he had. I think McKeag and his frugality and utility would point me to the GPR.

I'll order the GPR tomorrow.

I wanna thank all y'all for your advice, observations, and input!

I went out today and bought .54 balls and patches. Yeah, I guess I'm kinda eager!
 
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Mine shot .530 balls wrapped in .018 pillow tick washed and dryed in a HOT dryer and lubed with a mix of 50/50 bee wax/Vasoline over 80 grains 2Fg powder and sparked with CCI regular #11 cap.

Yes the working guns were plain wood, browned metal that did not reflect sunlight. A working rifle/smooth bore weapon did not have the bright shiny bling that our works of art possess on today's weapons. Just like a USA custom builder of the honored Sharps rifles have the basic rifle that is just that ... a working mans weapon.

To be HC in the strictest sense of the word, a everyday man with very modest means, would have spent just enough to purchase the best built gun ... putting much importance on a hardy, well built, gun from a builder with a reputation for well built, no frills gun that would withstand everyday life as the tool that they were.

54 is my personal favorite rifle cal. It is the CAN DO calibre of muzzleloaders. Taking everything from moose to squirrel. Leaving enough for having meat in the pot.
 
A Sharps rifle, did ye say? :) I have a Shiloh Sharps, 1874 Hartford model, in .45-70 with an MVA long-range sharps rear sight and an MVA globe front with windage adjustment and spirit level.

I'm still gonna save up for a custom rifle, mebbeso buy a kit from Stith or the Hawken Shop and have some skilled gent put it together for me. Dunno if it's gonna cost me as much as that Sharps, but it ain't gonna be cheap, that's for sure.

My family got our T/C Hawkens in .50 caliber, but we live in Florida. The deer are small and we ain't never seen a buffalo hereabouts. But in the next few years I plan to move to Montana, and the critters are bigger out there. I figure a .54 would be useful, much like the original mountain men found a larger caliber useful rather than the smaller calibers that they left Kentucky and Pennsylvania with on their journey West. Not that a .50 wouldn't put the hurt on something out there.

Bigted: "To be HC in the strictest sense of the word, a everyday man with very modest means, would have spent just enough to purchase the best built gun ... putting much importance on a hardy, well built, gun from a builder with a reputation for well built, no frills gun that would withstand everyday life as the tool that they were."

I agree completely!
 
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rrebuck said:
I have the GPR 54 flint and have hunted with it. I've shot hundreds of rounds through it and haven't notice any problems with patches being cut. They do apparently only surface harden the frizzen b/c I did have trouble with it not sparking a few yrs ago, but I had a shop in Fairmont, WV weld on a piece of saw blade and it sparks great now. I have a Pedersoli flint in 32 cal and I like the lock on that rifle better than the Lyman.
Click to expand...
Are you from Fairmont? I'm from Clarksburg,don't know as if we may have ran to one another at shoots or rendezvous. Can't shoot woods walks any more, health concerns. I still like to go to our local club Appalation Rangers here in Clarksburg. They have a good rendezvous in may and host the West Agusta rendezvous in June I think. They shoot the second sunday of the month, shooting starts about 10.30 or 11. If you want to shoot some time pm me for directions......Tom Berwinkle
 
If you're concerned about weight, consider the Trade Rifle. I've got both Trade & GPR & find myself reaching for the Trade Rifle more often when getting ready for a trip to the range.
 
I'm interested in the trade rifle if it's in .54 cal, flintlock. Is it for sale? Believe it or not I was sitting down to order one from Dixie. Best price I could find,525.00. I've been looking for quite a while for a good used one and whenever I run into one it's been sold right after listing. Let me know, Tom
 
Del Gue said:
Well, the decision's been made.

It was kinda sealed today when a gent reminded that "Remember, these rifles are made to work. Not pretty toys." It kinda made me think that a real mountain man would buy the GPR and never look back. I'm also reminded of Alexander McKeag. When he and Pasquinel went to rendezvous, Pasquinel told McKeag he could buy a new rifle. McKeag replied that there was nothing wrong with the one he had. I think McKeag and his frugality and utility would point me to the GPR.

I'll order the GPR tomorrow.

I wanna thank all y'all for your advice, observations, and input!

I went out today and bought .54 balls and patches. Yeah, I guess I'm kinda eager!
Click to expand...
Great choice Gene
 
tom berwinkle said:
Are you from Fairmont? I'm from Clarksburg,don't know as if we may have ran to one another at shoots or rendezvous. Can't shoot woods walks any more, health concerns. I still like to go to our local club Appalation Rangers here in Clarksburg. They have a good rendezvous in may and host the West Agusta rendezvous in June I think. They shoot the second sunday of the month, shooting starts about 10.30 or 11. If you want to shoot some time pm me for directions......Tom Berwinkle
Click to expand...
I used to live in Petersburg, WV and the guy who ran the shop in Fairmont came down for the annual team shoot at our local range. I told him the problems I was having with it not sparking and he took the lock with him to weld on the saw blade and mailed it back to me. I no longer live there, but the free public range, operated by the county, is right beside the elementary school in Maysville. Bet you don't find that anywhere else.
 
I can't say enough good about Pedersoli's Hawken rifles.....short of a Custom rifle, these are the best "repro" Hawkens out there and they retain that "working gun" look, no bling.
 
Just a brief followup on my Lyman GPR 54.
After contacting Lyman again about the primitive sight being undersized, I finally heard back and the sent me a replacement. That's the good news. Their email said the replacemtn sight was inspected by a technician and verified to be in spec. In reality, the base of the replacement was 0.005" narrower that the undersized sight that came with the rifle. Lyman's loose sight solution was to bend the "wings" of the base down so that the sight would scrape/drag across the top of the barrel when it was installed. This little incident doesn't give me much of a warm and fuzzy about Lyman's support dept. or it's QC.

YMMV...
 
Obviously their "in spec" and your "in spec" are two different worlds. Every since sights have been put on barrels there's been some kind of pinning or bending going on to keep sights in place.
 
dlpowell said:
Obviously their "in spec" and your "in spec" are two different worlds. Every since sights have been put on barrels there's been some kind of pinning or bending going on to keep sights in place.
Click to expand...

Evidently.
Note to self: I guess that expecting a mass produced (made in a factory - not by hand) product to be held to QC controlled specifications is asking too much. I've designed/built CNC systems that can machine granite to a glass edge finish where the eye or touch can't find any errors. I expect wood to have irregularities and imperfections - that's the nature of wood and the beauty of it. At the same time, I also expect certain metal parts to be held to the required specification for their intended use. For some parts, that tolerance might be +/- 1/8", while for others, it's +/- 0.0005" (it depends on the application). When a company tells me that a part was inspected and meets it's required specification, I expect it to be so - NOT further out of spec than the part it's replacing. In the final tally it's not a crisis, I can make the 1st rear sight work. At the same time, sending out a bent part and then claiming it's better than the part it's replacing just makes me wonder about how they view QC.
 
I don't blame you. After all, this is the 21st century. It would seem that with the industrial revolution long since arrived that something simple like a sight base could be correctly and consistently made to a certain size. Makes me wonder how old the tools are that are making these things.

Anybody have these sorts of problems with the Pedersoli Hawkens or Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifles?

I guess the good news is we don't have to worry about getting jumped by the Arikara or the Crow or Blackfeet out by ourselves in beaver country and having our sights off on our rifles!

(And of course ever since I decided to get the GPR rifle TOW has had them on backorder.)
 
A pretty easy fix would be to drill and tap a hole on the side of the base (early OEM Winchester and Marlin) and install a small short set screw with a slot head.
 
I think the problem is that the sight itself is cast and the dovetail is machined. The machined dovetail is correct for the metric dovetail size, but the cast sight most of the time comes out on the small side and they don't want to remake the casting mold for the sight.
 

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