Lyman Hawkin value

[Brokennock]

A friend of a friend wants to sell a Lyman Hawken .50 cal. flintlock. He wants to know approximate value/fair market price. Not being interested in half stock guns I'm not sure what to tell him, but told him I'd ask here.

What say you?

 

[galamb]

Lyman has made a Deerstalker, Trade Rifle and Great Plains Rifle in traditional - never a Hawken.

So my first questions would be 1) is it a Lyman for sure and 2) if so, what's the model, because they never made a Hawken?

 

[Micah Clark]

I hope I am correct weighing in here as one somewhat new to the ML scene, in the last 5 years.

We traditionalists might describe the Lyman Great Plains as a Hawken (or Lehman) style as original Hawkens were plains style rifles . . . but the average shooter might call their Lyman Trade Rifle, which may have a brass cap box, and look quite a bit like a Thompson Center "Hawken" as those kinds of rifles were often called and sold as "Hawkens" throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's.

The two are very different Lyman's and differing values.

This is a picture of my Lyman Great Plains Rifle from this past November . . . it's a LH flint.

 

[Pete44ru]

A friend of a friend wants to sell a Lyman Hawken .50 cal. flintlock. He wants to know approximate value/fair market price. Not being interested in half stock guns I'm not sure what to tell him, but told him I'd ask here.

What say you?

I'd say that more information would be needed, like details about it's condition inside & out, compared to new, and the barrel's length.


.

 

[Brokennock]

You guys have as much info as I do. My friend sent me text saying his friend wants to sell this gun and wants to know what it's worth.

Mac. You are exactly correct. To non-tradition enthusiasts who don't do a bunch of research, all half stock muzzle loaders with side locks and wood stocks, are Hawkens. And Galamb has been around long enough to know this.

 

[galamb]

Yes I have which is exactly why I asked - so does he have a (Hawken) Trade Rifle - half stocked rifle, a (Hawken) Great Plains Rifle - half stocked rifle which looks more like a Hawken or a (Hawken) Deerstalker - half stocked rifle.

If he has a Deerstalker it's worth half or less than a GPR - all else being equal.

So while I agree that the guy who bought one after watching Jeremiah Johnson might "think of" his Trade Rifle as a Hawken, all three of these models are "half stocked" and their price points and retained value are quite different.

 

[nhmoose]

In excellent condition and I mean like new , 1/2 of retail now.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Give your friend a checklist. With more info, the model can be better determined:

1 wedge or 2?

Brass, Black Iron or Rubber Buttplate?

Shape of Buttplate: flatter or more curved?

Toeplate, or not?

Barrel length?

brass patchbox, or not?

how many ramrod thimbles?

Iron or fiber optic sights?

 

[AZbpBurner]

I hope I am correct weighing in here as one somewhat new to the ML scene, in the last 5 years.

We traditionalists might describe the Lyman Great Plains as a Hawken (or Lehman) style as original Hawkens were plains style rifles . . . but the average shooter might call their Lyman Trade Rifle, which may have a brass cap box, and look quite a bit like a Thompson Center "Hawken" as those kinds of rifles were often called and sold as "Hawkens" throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's.

The two are very different Lyman's and differing values.

This is a picture of my Lyman Great Plains Rifle from this past November . . . it's a LH flint.

.50 or .54 cal?

 

[Micah Clark]

That's a .50 . . . bought it used on Gunbroker a few years ago . . actually my wife made it my Christmas Present. That was my first ML deer taken this past November.

The GPR is really a fine rifle for a production gun . . .as a Lefty I don't have a lot of choices. . .though I've shot some RH percussion and it's not a problem. . . I just figured a flintlock ought to be on the proper side due to the flash.

Other then being a little heavy, I have no complaints about it . . and I like it's looks too. It's not a competition shooter, but that's probably because of me . .I've heard of people shooting them in competitions, but it's plenty accurate for me in the woods.

 

[Brokennock]

I'll see what I can find out. With no interest in half stock guns myself, I really don't know much about them (which I thought I implied) other than that they are not all true "Hawkens." So many of the commercial production ones seem, well, hoaky for lack of a better term. Like they were meant to suggest tradition, but were mostly designed for certain people to the advantage of another deer season and nothing more. I have some of my dad's cap guns and other toy guns from when he was a kid growing up playing cowboy in the late 1940's thru the 50's and they seem better built than many of the mass produced side lock muzzle loaders I see. To the point I almost told him it's worth $50,,, but, I do hear good things about the GPR so I didn't.

 

[AZbpBurner]

That's a .50 . . . bought it used on Gunbroker a few years ago . . actually my wife made it my Christmas Present. That was my first ML deer taken this past November.

The GPR is really a fine rifle for a production gun . . .as a Lefty I don't have a lot of choices. . .though I've shot some RH percussion and it's not a problem. . . I just figured a flintlock ought to be on the proper side due to the flash.

Other then being a little heavy, I have no complaints about it . . and I like it's looks too. It's not a competition shooter, but that's probably because of me . .I've heard of people shooting them in competitions, but it's plenty accurate for me in the woods.

What powder load are you using?

I got a lefty flint GPR several years ago & it's got great feel, balance, the lock is smooth & the settriggers actually adjusted without any grief. I already had several caplocks in both .50 & .54 & they were tackdrivers.

I grew up shooting from a collection of old original flintlocks, so the pan flash (on either side) doesn't bother me.

I just can't get my .50 GPR to group worth a damn, so it just kinda sits there in the closet while I've gone on to other Lyman flints, which are all amazingly accurate. It's got at least 500 hundred rounds thru it, but at 100 yards still isn't very consistent. I can bust 90+% grapefruit at 100 yards all day with a flint Deerstalker & all the capguns in either caliber, but the GPR (best looking of them all) is just all show & no go with about 50% hits on good day. I've settled on 70 gr 3f to get it to do the best it can. As time permits, I'll either just spend more time with it, or maybe get it bored out to .54 cal. - still deciding.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

It's still in production, so let's say 80 percent retail for good used arms.

With some accesories, they go for 450 in the gpr and 350 to 400 for the trade rifle, and 300 to 350 for the deerstalker.

Gpr is 32 inch, 2 wedge pins, double set triggers. And a curved butt.

Trade rifle is single set trigger and 28 inch barrel.

Deer stalker has fiber optic sights, a modern butt, and 24 inch barrel if I'm right.

I own a LH 54 cal GPR flintlock. It's a great gun. The lock is reliable and is easy on flints too. 1/16th drI'll bit to the flash hole and it's a great gun. 6 inch gongs offhand at 70 yards almost every shot offhand.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Cabelas has a hawken that is made by the same folks as lyman.

I buy commercial flintlocks when there's a really good deal and give them to interested folks. Our sport could use all the help it can get.

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks, that'll get him started if I can't find out more info.

 

[SgtErv]

I purchased a similar rifle (Cabelas Investarms Hawken; same manufacturer) used for $350 and considered it a good deal.

 

[Micah Clark]

I have used Goex 3F in my Lyman GPR . . also, and am currently using Graff & Sons 3F which is made by Schuetzen.

Both seem to shoot almost identically. I have also shot Goex 2F but not enough to make any judgments . . .seems to shoot fine.

I use Goex 4f in the pan.

I typically shoot between 70-90 grains.

I use a precut pillow ticking .15 patch, that I soak in Hoppes BP Solvent/ Patch Lube. . . and a 490 ball.

Although my shot patches look right, I usually use a felt over power wad, not so much to protect the patches, but the keep the Hoppes Lube from touching the powder. (That begin said. I've often shot patches that are not very wet, but have soaked in the BP solvent for weeks or months, just pulling them out of my shot bag.

This is my Deer gun so I am trying to get groups of baseball size or smaller, and I've had many times in which three shots are touching each other at 50 yards off a bench, using this combo. At 75 yards they are more baseball size or smaller. . . So I consider 75 yards about my max range, though I know many folks go out to 100 with the GPR. I can hit the vitals of a deer, within a paper plate center (not the ruffled edge ring) consistenly free hand at 50 and 75.

The difference in charge seems to only move elevation, so I seem to be in it's sweet spot from what little I know. So, in the woods, I just need to consider aiming higher, lower or spot on, and up to 75 yards, aiming center chest, an inch or two high or low won't matter much.

Some may not think that's very accurate, and if I were shooting my Remington .270, I'd agree. I may be doing something here that is not a "best practices" . . but I think its hitting just fine for a muzzleloader.

Chances are the gun is more accurate than I am. . .and I've heard a lot of people say that of the GPR. Yet, I had a traditions (model I won't name) that everybody raved about as highly accurate, and I could never get it right after 4 years of trying everything I could think of. . so I know such things can happen.

 

[Brokennock]

Just got an email from my friend. His buddy with the rifle sent him pics and more info. It is a GPR, and from the pics looks to be in excellent shape.

I sent him a link to this site to see if he wants to post it here for sale.

 

[chukyzlogin]

The only Lyman Hawken i have ever seen was a kit gun. It was a cap gun in .50 with one wedge.

The barrel and furniture were browned and the overall workmanship was good.

The stock was very thin especialy at the wrist compared to a TC , or the Great Plains rifle. It sold for $ 125.00 at a blanket swap meet.

I hope this helps you out.