M.A.P.

Awwwww, I jest cain't hep mawself! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Murphy's, alcohol, and peroxide is one dandy black powder cleaner!
No I'm NOT trying to talk anyone into using the stuff, I'm merely pointing out that it has to be used CORRECTLY .
I can't remember all the stuff that's left in the barrel after shooting black powder, but roughly half of the fuel is left behind in solids, most of which are hygrosopic, and many are salts. The fouling is far more likely to promote rust than a little peroxide.
The trick to using M.A.P. is to get ALL the M.A.P. out of the barrel. Another trick is to buy the right kind of rubbing alcohol, 91% instead of 70% What's the difference between the two? WATER. 70% contains more water.
Alcohol absorbs water, That's what's in "dry gas" you add to your fuel tank to get water mixed in with the gas so it will burn.
After swabbing the bore clean with M.A.P. use 91% alcohol to get ALL the residue from M.A.P. out, then dry completely with patches, then oil. Then ALWAYS check your bore the next day for corrosion.
I have used M.A.P for at least 3 years with narry a trace of rust, but I'm O.C.D. about cleaning the thing well, drying it, oiling it, then checking it a day later.
It matters not to me what you all use to clean your guns. Bleach is not a good idea though. I've read of recipies including cider, vinigar, pee-pee, hot water & soap, windshield washer fluid ( alcohol and water with pretty blue dye in it), mares sweat, and so on.......ad nausium.
The trick is to get ALL the cleaning solution out and dry the thing well, then oil the bore.
Leave a trace of water and soap in the barrel and I betcha it'll rust.
The 91% alcohol trick AFTER you clean the gun is a great idea because alcohol will absorb moisture.
Anyone got any fav'rite recipies for patch lube and cleaning solution???? :haha: :haha:

 

[cayugad]

Very interesting post. In what amounts do you put the Murphy's oil soap, peroxide, and rubbing alcohol together? I have used denatured alcohol and windshield washer fluid to clean muzzleloaders and it works real good.

My method of cleaning a traditional always has been a soap and hot water bath first and formost. After that I usually put some kind of solvent down the barrel and bore brush it. Then I run solvent patches, and finally denatured alcohol to make sure it is dry before I oil the inside of the barrel with Birchwood Casey Sheath.

With my in lines I also start with a water bath but in a different manner. I have a plastic funnel that I stick in the breech end of the barrel and then dump hot soapy water through the funnel to wash the crud out. Then I clean from the breech end like any other rifle.

I am always interested in a good barrel cleaning solution. I will look forward to learning the mixture.

As for lubes, I use moose milk for patches, mink oil, bore butter, and homemade bullet lube made out of pig lard and paraffin wax.

 

2 parts alcohol and Murphy's and one part peroxide. Some use 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3.

 

[2thdoc]

I wonder how denatured alcohol solvent (ethanol) would work instead of isopropyl rubbing alcohol in this solution? Probably would have less water in it than even the 91% isopropyl. I think the gas drying additives contain methanol (wood alcohol). Then again, Wild Turkey 101 proof might work pretty good; might make you look forward to cleaning that barrel. ::

 

[Herb]

I have used the Murphy's Oil soap recipe for a couple of years, 1 part it, 1 part 70% rubbing alcohol, 1 part hydrogen peroxide. The water is a good cleaner for black powder. The discussion fits my experience, you do have to oil the bore. If I have any reason to clean at the range, I squirt some alcohol down the bore then jet it out the flash hole or nipple and dry the bore before continuing. Because this cleaner works so well, I developed a patch lube from it. For that, one part M.O.S. and one part 91% alcohol (used to be able to find 99%). Soak the pre cut patches in a cap box (about 24), or use a squeeze bottle and wet the patches as I use them. First method is faster, both work. That keeps the fouling soft as long as you keep shooting (up to 40 or 50 shots so far). But if I wait maybe half an hour between sessions, the fouling hardens so that I know it is there. So I wondered if this stuff was seasoning the bore and have tried cleaning lightly and not oiling. Yes, you do get light rust the next day. 70% or 91% cost the same, don't know that that little bit of water adds anything to the cleaner. Nice to hear this experience from all. Lynn uses the cleaner solution for her shooting patches, and she won the last high dollar blanket shoot with her little left hand flint .40, shooting against some big boys with big guns.

 

[Herb]

Here's one of them, her husband Neill.

And another, Pat L.

Of course, they were using spit patches cut at the muzzle.

 

[Rebel]

I use Murphy's oil Soap, Alcohol and water mix to clea with usually. Sometimes just plain 'ol water. After the cleaning patches,then dry patches to dry out most of the water or mix, then i spray the bore good with WD-40 and then run a WD-40 soaked path down the barrel. I check the bore with a clean patch the next day to see if there is any sign of rust. Been doing it this way since the 70's, except for just recently started using the Murphy's mix, and not a rusty gun yet.

 

I use a mix of castor bean oil, alcohol 91% and dish soap.
I mix approx 30% bean oil 60% alco.10% soap works great for me. I use it to clean and as a patch lube. NO problems with rust!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm still scratching my head for what the hydrogen peroxide might do that helps clean a gun. It is H2O2, water with an extra oxygen. If you're using it our of your medicine cabinet it is 97% water anyway. Solvent grade (wood bleach & water treatment) is 60% water and Technical grade is 30% water, and I'd be curious to know where you got that in less than a drum container. I would really like to se some data on peroxide as a solvent application. It will react with hydrogen sulfide (the sulphur smell in hard water and powder residue), but it does this by forming sulphuric acid (H2SO4) and more water. Salts (something with a metal molecule and a hydrogen ion away from an acid) will dissolve in water and plain old water is the best thing to wash them away - with the help of detergent or soap to surround the particles and keep them from sticking to the barrel walls.

I use stove alcohol (aka 'solvent' or 'denatured' alcohol, 95% Ethanol) for my cleaning mixes. No colorants or odorizers and less water.

Try Murphy's Oil Soap and alcohol with water instead of the peroxide and see if it makes any difference. I use boiling hot water with some Ivory Soap flaked in by scraping the bar with the edge of a knife blade. I flush the barrel out throughly using the ramrod and a patch as a pump with a rinse of boiling hot water without soap. The mechanical action of the moving water removes the fouling. Then I oil the barrel with Lehigh oil or a patch with Natural Lube if I am going to be shooting it again within a few weeks.

If I can't get to boiling water for whatever reason I use homebrew moose milk (see the Links page).

Generic moose milk
Napa water soluble cutting oil (if your local napa store doesn't have it in stock the part number is 765-1526 for 1 pint)
Murphy's oil soap
1 liter water bottle
water
rubbing alcohol (optional)

Fill water bottle half full with WARM water. Add 2 oz. each of the water soluble oil and the murphy's oil soap. Shake well and watch it turn white. This means it is mixed. Once mixed it won't unmix. Fill bottle up with water.

 

[musketman]

I'm still scratching my head for what the hydrogen peroxide might do that helps clean a gun.

It will make your barrel FIZZ... :winking:

 

[Ohio Joe]

What does the peroxide do? It makes you keep the M.A.P. solution in a dark bottle??? I really don't think it is a necessary ingredient in the solution... It could easily be replaced with water and called, M.A.W.... I see that Stumpkiller has already suggested this, and I agree... Anyway, why go buy peroxide when water is right in your home? Yes, I've used the peroxide and from now on I'll just save my .49 cents and gas it takes to go get it. I'm going to use, M.A.W...

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

The only recommendation I've got for lube is Lehigh Valley. The stuff is unmatched for all I'm concerned. I once shot a 20 shot woods walk and never cleaned the smoothbore one time till I got back to the truck. I carried a loading rod with a damp cleaning patch that I loaded with. After fininshin, 2 wet patches with the MAP, four dry and a swab of WD40 and I was done, clean. Good stuff, no :bull:

 

[roundball]

Must be like natural lube 1000...I shoot 40 shots at the range every Saturday I can and never wipe between shots...makes shootin' a lot more fun!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have been doing an exhaustive search (my departmental expense report will show "Misc. Research") and I found MSDS 3575 (Colgate-Polmolive"s submission of a Material Safety Data Sheet) on Murphy's Oil Soap. Contains potassium hydroxide (more on this in a minute) which is a Section 311 Material (must be reported under the Clean Water Act) and is INCOMPATABALE WITH STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS (specifically organic peroxides) (MSDS Section 10 - Stability and Reactivity). Our old buddy hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizing agent.

Back to potassium hydroxide. When soap is made from wood ash (as in the colonies) it is the potassium hydroxide in the ash (potash) and potassium carbonates that saponify the animal fat into fatty acids and glycerine. What's almost unique about gycerine? It's a humectant (moisture absorber). What other substance that is a vegetable oil is a humectant? Anyone? Castor oil, as well as being a non-drying, non-yellowing oil it is a humectant - unique among vegetable oils. It is also stable whan heated, like mineral oils, and does not produce tar residue like petroleum/mineral oils do when burned. It does not become stiff in the cold. Hmmmmm.

Then along comes Superflint and mentions he uses witch hazel to good ends as a ingredient patch lube. Witch hazel - in addition to being a volatile vegetable oil (it vaporizes readily) - is an astringent (it dries moisture). More hmmmmm.

So when you push a patch down the castor oil collects moisture and the witch hazel evaporates off, taking more moisture with it. The Murphy's Oil is a vegetable detergent oil, serving to hold them in suspension together, lubricate (as does the castor) and break down fouling. After the gun is fired the castor oil (and fats and waxes in the beeswax) keep the fouling soft.

I'm thinking a mix of Murphy's Oil Soap, castor oil, witch hazel and either beeswax for a grease type lube or stove alcohol and water for a liquid lube/ solvent might be the way to go.

Why was potassiun hydroxide important earlier? Part of the soap making process. So what kind of soap did the colonists have. Soft soap is the frothy dross of boiling down the lye leached from an ash bed. To make bar soap you add salt. If you want a liquid soap you don't. The liquid soap available to Joe Colonist would have been something approximating Murphy's Oil Soap.

Was castor oil available in America in the 1700's or even 1800's? I don't know. I don't know if olive oil was, either. The Romans spreas castor plants all over the warmer spots of Europe - they used it as a lamp oil. It's been used in medicines for about everything you can imagine:

"Considered anodyne, antidote, aperient, bactericide, cathartic, cyanogenetic, discutient, emetic, emollient, expectorant, insecticide, lactagogue, larvicidal, laxative, POISON, purgative, tonic, and vermifuge, castor or castoroil is a dangerous ingredient in folk remedies for abscess, anasarca, arthritis, asthma, boils, burns, cancer, carbuncles, catarrh, chancre, cholera, cold, colic, convulsions, corns, craw-craw, deafness, delirium, dermatitis, dogbite, dropsy, epilepsy, erysipelas, fever, flu, gout, guineaworm, headache, inflammation, moles, myalgia, nerves, osteomyelitis, palsy, parturition, prolapse, puerperium, rash, rheumatism, scald, scrofula, seborrhea, skin, sores, stomachache, strabismus, swellings, toothaches, tuberculosis, tumors, urethritis, uteritis, venereal disease, warts, whitlows, and wounds. The oil and seed have been used as folk remedies for: warts, cold tumors, indurations of the abdominal organs, whitlows, lacteal tumors, indurations of the mammary gland, corns, and moles, etc. Castor-oil is a cathartic and has labor-inducing properties. Ricinoleic acid has served in contraceptive jellies. Ricin, a toxic protein in the seeds, acts as a blood coagulant. Oil used externally for dermatitis and eye ailments. Seeds, which yield 45–50% of a fixed oil, also contain the alkaloids ricinine and toxalbumin ricin, and considered purgative, counter-irritant in scorpion-sting and fish poison. Leaves applied to the head to relieve headache and as a poultice for boils. (Duke and Wain, 1981). "

And we all know it was used to get The Little Rascals to go to school when they were pretending to be ill.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Nice job in breaking it down, Stumpkiller... That is a lot of information to absorb. I'll have to read it a few times to get the full benifit from it... Thanks for taking the time to put this information together. It is appreciated! :applause:

 

hard to beat boiling water......yyaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnn......g'nite folks

 

[Zonie]

A lot of information, so little time!

Actually MAW sounds interesting. I mean, MAW could clean ANYTHING! Pots, pans, dishes, glasses cloths!
Why even her spit could clean stains and dirt right off your forehead.
Who doesn't remember that spit soaked finger being applied with just some hard finger pressure and some hard rubbing right before you were drug into the living room to meet the dear aunt from Buffalo!!!! ::

 

[Stumpkiller]

I even sourced my ingredients on the way home at a place most folks will have access to and am ready to begin experimenting.

All from CVS Drugstore:
Murphy's Oil Soap, 16oz. $2.49
Witch Hazel, 16 oz. 3.19
Isopropyl Alcohol, 32 oz. 1.99
Castor Oil, 4 oz. 3.89

I already had some beeswax and mutton tallow (from DGW) on hand. I'll start a new thread when I get something brewing.

Whatcha think? Stumpkiller's MLFS* Patch Lube & Blackpowder Solvent

* MuzzleLoading Forum Special

 

[bob1961]

that adds up to 11.56 plus tax for 68 ozs of the juice....just a little over a half gallon....sounds cost worhty...................bob

 

[Stumpkiller]

Whoa! Them ain't the final ratios. That's the size the containers that the components came in. That's probably enough Murhpy's Oil to do 4 or 5 gallons of lube.

I'm figuring equal parts of the castor oil & Murphy's Oil and then jinking around with the witch hazel and alcohol, maybe even adding some water for the solvent version. For the grease I'll add beeswax, maybe some tallow, and not add alcohol or water.

Work yet to be done.