M1842 Ashton pistol restore or leave alone?

[Patio]

Want to replace the hickory ramrod and thimble that came with the pistol with the correct ramrod assembly that was issued from the arsenal. Will go with a reproduction assembly available on line. The missing lock screw will be replaced also. The nipple is not original to the pistol and will be replaced too. Thinking about getting the barrel relined so it can be shot. My questions are:
1. Should I go through with the restoration process or leave the pistol alone?
2. What size caps were used on an original pistol?

 

[Smokerr]

This is a case where I would leave it alone. It has a lot of historical value as is (or so I think).

I would not shoot it.

 

[wiscoaster]

You don't have to go with a complete restoration. You can just clean it up and fix what's broken. That's what I generally do with my original firearms that I want to keep as "original" as possible. The goal is to make it "as was" when in use, not necessirily "like new". It's your gun - it's your choice. There's no obligation to keep "hands-off" in honor of history, because I think you're still honoring history if you make it "as was", and I think that also means shootable.

 

[Sam squanch]

If the bore is not too bad, I’d clean it and shoot it. These pistols were very rugged. If you want it relined get a PROFESSIONAL to do it who understands black powder guns. I think they used a musket cap? Not sure.

 

[Auldjin]

I certainly agree that the issues with the ramrod and missing screw do spoil the look of the pistol and fixing them is certainly justified in a sympathetic restoration.

 

[Patio]

You don't have to go with a complete restoration. You can just clean it up anf fix what's broken. That's what I generally do with my original firearms that I want to keep as "original" as possible. The goal is to make it "as was" when in use, not necessirily "like new". It's your gun - it's your choice. There's no obligation to keep "hands-off" in honor of history, because I think you're still honoring history if you make it "as was", and I think that also means shootable.

Thank you for your reply. Plan to replace the missing parts and age them to match the patina of the pistol.

 

[Patio]

If the bore is not too bad, I’d clean it and shoot it. These pistols were very rugged. If you want it relined get a PROFESSIONAL to do it who understands black powder guns. I think they used a musket cap? Not sure.

The bore is rough. If the decision to reline is made, it will be done professionally.

 

[Patio]

I certainly agree that the issues with the ramrod and missing screw do spoil the look of the pistol and fixing them is certainly justified in a sympathetic restoration.

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Patio]

This is a case where I would leave it alone. It has a lot of historical value as is (or so I think).

I would not shoot it.

Thank you for your reply. If I had iron clad proof that the repair was made by a southern blacksmith for use by the Confederacy, I would definitely leave it alone.

 

[Relic shooter]

View attachment 287465View attachment 287466View attachment 287467View attachment 287468Want to replace the hickory ramrod and thimble that came with the pistol with the correct ramrod assembly that was issued from the arsenal. Will go with a reproduction assembly available on line. The missing lock screw will be replaced also. The nipple is not original to the pistol and will be replaced too. Thinking about getting the barrel relined so it can be shot. My questions are:
1. Should I go through with the restoration process or leave the pistol alone?
2. What size caps were used on an original pistol?
View attachment 287465

Before re-lining the bore, try giving it a good cleaning with various grades of 3M abrasive cloth over a cleaning jag.
I've shot many original firearms with pitted bores that shot well after a good cleaning that removed the roughness.

Looks like someone has already replaced the nipple, if the nipple's threads fit snugly & vent-hole of the
nipple is in good shape consider shooting it with 35 gr. of 2 or 3F & a lubed patched round ball.
Relic shooter

 

[Patio]

Before re-lining the bore, try giving it a good cleaning with various grades of 3M abrasive cloth over a cleaning jag.
I've shot many original firearms with pitted bores that shot well after a good cleaning that removed the roughness.

Looks like someone has already replaced the nipple, if the nipple's threads fit snugly & vent-hole of the
nipple is in good shape consider shooting it with 35 gr. of 2 or 3F & a lubed patched round ball.
Relic shooter

Nipple is not real tight when screwed in. Threads in the barrel have been worked on before and were not correctly done. Probably needs a helicoil repair to make it secure in the barrel. Will try removing the bore roughness with emery cloth. It can’t hurt. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Spaxspore]

I agree with the other gentlemen. Just a good clean with ballistol. Its a good overall shape for its age.

 

[Relic shooter]

Nipple is not real tight when screwed in. Threads in the barrel have been worked on before and were not correctly done. Probably needs a helicoil repair to make it secure in the barrel. Will try removing the bore roughness with emery cloth. It can’t hurt. Thanks for your reply.

If your skilled with using drills, taps & dies, drill & tap to a larger thread size that will fit a quality replacement nipple.
Treso makes a wide assortment of 'oversized rifle & musket nipples just for these circumstances.

 

[Smokerr]

It needs to be noted we were asked and I did not jump in telling the owner what to do with it. Flip is if the owner does not want views, then he should not post.

You can take something like the rod out and replace it and as long as the rod is in hand, you have not changed anything.

Drill and replace a Cone and you have taken its value down a lot, possibly to nothing.

I have seen some of the old revolver values into the 10-20K range and likely those are not the limit. There is a combination of both monetray and historical value involved.

I found it best to make an informed decision. But if the owner wants to sleeve the barrel, re-finish it, drill it, he can do that for sure no issues.

I do keep in mind many years ago, someone thought that preserving Yellowstone and Yosemite, the Redwoods was well worth it. I have been to all of them and I think they were right.

 

[Patio]

If your skilled with using drills, taps & dies, drill & tap to a larger thread size that will fit a quality replacement nipple.
Treso makes a wide assortment of 'oversized rifle & musket nipples just for these circumstances.

The nipple as it sits now is not properly aligned with the hammer. Someone before has worked on the bolster to correct what was probably a rusted in nipple. This is a guess. Whatever was done is not as it left the factory. Thanks for the information about Treso nipples.

 

[Patio]

It needs to be noted we were asked and I did not jump in telling the owner what to do with it. Flip is if the owner does not want views, then he should not post.

You can take something like the rod out and replace it and as long as the rod is in hand, you have not changed anything.

Drill and replace a Cone and you have taken its value down a lot, possibly to nothing.

I have seen some of the old revolver values into the 10-20K range and likely those are not the limit. There is a combination of both monetray and historical value involved.

I found it best to make an informed decision. But if the owner wants to sleeve the barrel, re-finish it, drill it, he can do that for sure no issues.

I do keep in mind many years ago, someone thought that preserving Yellowstone and Yosemite, the Redwoods was well worth it. I have been to all of them and I think they were right.

This m1842 pistol under discussion was sitting next to a m1836 Johnson that had been converted back to flintlock configuration. I passed on it due to the conversion. Would have given it a chance if it had been left percussion. Yes, I want to alter this m1842 pistol to a different state than when it was purchased. The nipple has been replaced and the threads in the barrel holding the nipple in are not in good shape. Someone in the past has worked on this area trying to repair it. In my opinion, this repair is not acceptable. I want this pistol to look like and function as it left the factory. If it hadn’t been altered already, it would be left alone. The patina on the metal, the wear and tear on the stock are acceptable to me. The non factory rammer and the poor repair to the nipple are not acceptable to me. Your opinions are appreciated. Thank you all for sharing them.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’d leave it be.

These antiques are just that. The loading lever replacement is an interesting modification and doesn’t look recent. This gun has a story all its own. Get a Lyman or Pedersoli if you want a shooter. Parts for these originals are like hens teeth and if it breaks while shooting, you’re SOL.

 

[Patio]

Sideplate screw is fitted and ready for aging.

 

[Relic shooter]

Sideplate screw is fitted and ready for aging.View attachment 288277View attachment 288278

Nice job on replacing the lock screws with the proper head shapes !!

Opinion of a former antique arms collector, dealer & active shooter:
Having dealt with hundreds if not more valuable antique firearms on both business & personal basis for several decades, you are on the right track.
Considering the less than good condition this pistol was in when you acquired it & the responsible steps you've taken to
restore it correctly, you should have no reservations about what your doing to make this pistol safe & bring it back to life.

Rest assured if you had stripped, & refinished a rare original flint or percussion firearm in already original excellent condition, you would hear criticism from fellow collector/members like myself.
Best to you,
Relic shooter

 

[Patio]

Nice job on replacing the lock screws with the proper head shapes !!

Opinion of a former antique arms collector, dealer & active shooter:
Having dealt with hundreds if not more valuable antique firearms on both business & personal basis for several decades, you are on the right track.
Considering the less than good condition this pistol was in when you acquired it & the responsible steps you've taken to
restore it correctly, you should have no reservations about what your doing to make this pistol safe & bring it back to life.

Rest assured if you had stripped, & refinished a rare original flint or percussion firearm in already original excellent condition, you would hear criticism from fellow collector/members like myself.
Best to you,
Relic shooter

Thanks for your reply. Can only take credit for replacing the shiny front screw. The rear screw with the patina was present when the pistol was purchased.