Making a wedge for the 1860

[Rich44]

Making a Wedge for the 1860​

These are the steps that were used to make a wedge for the Uberti 1860 Army Colt. Used O-1 tool steel, other tool steels would work just fine also. Starting with a rectangular piece of the dimensions 1.100" long by .562" wide by .200 thick. The center of the wedge screw measures .250 from the back edge of left hand slot. So that is where the 5/32 slot for the spring will be machined. And that will be machined on a 2 degree angle, so the spring will tend to angle upwards. Left side showing.

Next use a drill a Number 45 (.082) and about .080 from the left edge, drill thru hole.

Use a 1/4 ball end mill and open slot up for head of screw clearance. But stop just short on the left side, leaving channel for snug fit on spring.

Till it looks like this.

Now this side is done and we need to flip it over and machine the thickness. The slots in my frame are .140" thick, so around .136 thick will be fine. This does not need to fit snug as the slot in the arbor is a good .020 more in thickness. The wedge is not stopping the barrel from a spin motion. That is the job of the twin alignment pins. The wedge should not interfere with the pin alignment in any way.

After this flip the wedge front edge up and on a 2 degree angle. Why 2 degrees? Well my frame has slots .550 long on the left side and .525 0n the right side and being .755 thick this is 2 degrees. I take this as an indication that 2 degrees would be correct. Any less would be too difficult to fetch up correctly, any more takes away from the strength friction factor of the wedge staying put. My wedge ended up a width of .550 on the left side and .510 on the right side. Go slowly and checking to get proper fit, can be taken undersized very easily. Then debur and round edges.

Heat up to orange red (Allis-Chalmers) and dip in oil for hardening.

Draw back to a gun metal blue color for about 54 rc

So this is what we wind up with.

The spring has that upward angle that was wanted.

New wedge stops just clearing right side.

And give plenty of room for wear if needed deeper.

And hooks on the screw on left side, but also allowing wedge to be pulled out to clear arbor for barrel removal. And stays hooked under screw. So the chance of losing the wedge is kept to a minimum. Well there are probably many other ways a wedge can be made, but this is showing one way. Measurements were proper for my handgun, others might be very different.

 

[Justin.44]

That's really cool! Good job.

 

[Gee Dog]

I don’t have an outfitted shop or a Ph.D in metalworking.

Why not just buy one from VTI?

 

[Rich44]

Well I'll take a try in answering your question.

"Why not just buy one?"

I definitely understand what you're saying, time wise verses dollar cost would make a good reason to buy. But since nearly my entire life has been spent making products mainly out of metal for my employers, home maintenance use, and for friends. It has provided the income to buy my home, provide for my wife, put food on the table, and raise my children. Being able to make different projects has always been rewarding. By doing even these small jobs helps keep me sharp in the skills that were a gift. At my age I feel great to "roll my own". So why should I buy it when I can make just what I want. By no means was this post meant to be harmful to people that may not have the tools or the desire to do the same. I see skills all the time being displayed on this forum that are way above my skill level. And that mere fact makes fully realize that everybody has gifts and skills to match their own selves.

 

[45D]

I don’t have an outfitted shop or a Ph.D in metalworking.

Why not just buy one from VTI?

Wouldn't fit as well and definitely made of better material !!

Nice job Rich44 !!

 

[Rich44]

Wouldn't fit as well and definitely made of better material !!

Nice job Rich44 !!

Thank you very much!!

 

[CuNosecap]

Why not just buy one?

Fantastic answer you gave Rich. And I couldn’t agree more that we all have some talents; some different, some more or less than others.
When I hear people say the could never carve, or…I just think that the best carver or machinist or welder had to start somewhere. You’ve got to give it a try.
Great tutorial and great answer.

 

[Rich44]

When I hear people say the could never carve, or…I just think that the best carver or machinist or welder had to start somewhere. You’ve got to give it a try.

You are so correct, thanks

 

[M. De Land]

Making a Wedge for the 1860​

These are the steps that were used to make a wedge for the Uberti 1860 Army Colt. Used O-1 tool steel, other tool steels would work just fine also. Starting with a rectangular piece of the dimensions 1.100" long by .562" wide by .200 thick. The center of the wedge screw measures .250 from the back edge of left hand slot. So that is where the 5/32 slot for the spring will be machined. And that will be machined on a 2 degree angle, so the spring will tend to angle upwards. Left side showing.

Next use a drill a Number 45 (.082) and about .080 from the left edge, drill thru hole.
View attachment 255724

Use a 1/4 ball end mill and open slot up for head of screw clearance. But stop just short on the left side, leaving channel for snug fit on spring.

Till it looks like this.

View attachment 255725

Now this side is done and we need to flip it over and machine the thickness. The slots in my frame are .140" thick, so around .136 thick will be fine. This does not need to fit snug as the slot in the arbor is a good .020 more in thickness. The wedge is not stopping the barrel from a spin motion. That is the job of the twin alignment pins. The wedge should not interfere with the pin alignment in any way.

After this flip the wedge front edge up and on a 2 degree angle. Why 2 degrees? Well my frame has slots .550 long on the left side and .525 0n the right side and being .755 thick this is 2 degrees. I take this as an indication that 2 degrees would be correct. Any less would be too difficult to fetch up correctly, any more takes away from the strength friction factor of the wedge staying put. My wedge ended up a width of .550 on the left side and .510 on the right side. Go slowly and checking to get proper fit, can be taken undersized very easily. Then debur and round edges.

View attachment 255726

Heat up to orange red (Allis-Chalmers) and dip in oil for hardening.

Draw back to a gun metal blue color for about 54 rc

View attachment 255728

So this is what we wind up with.

The spring has that upward angle that was wanted.

View attachment 255729

New wedge stops just clearing right side.

And give plenty of room for wear if needed deeper.

And hooks on the screw on left side, but also allowing wedge to be pulled out to clear arbor for barrel removal. And stays hooked under screw. So the chance of losing the wedge is kept to a minimum. Well there are probably many other ways a wedge can be made, but this is showing one way. Measurements were proper for my handgun, others might be very different.

View attachment 255730

Making a Wedge for the 1860​

These are the steps that were used to make a wedge for the Uberti 1860 Army Colt. Used O-1 tool steel, other tool steels would work just fine also. Starting with a rectangular piece of the dimensions 1.100" long by .562" wide by .200 thick. The center of the wedge screw measures .250 from the back edge of left hand slot. So that is where the 5/32 slot for the spring will be machined. And that will be machined on a 2 degree angle, so the spring will tend to angle upwards. Left side showing.

Next use a drill a Number 45 (.082) and about .080 from the left edge, drill thru hole.
View attachment 255724

Use a 1/4 ball end mill and open slot up for head of screw clearance. But stop just short on the left side, leaving channel for snug fit on spring.

Till it looks like this.

View attachment 255725

Now this side is done and we need to flip it over and machine the thickness. The slots in my frame are .140" thick, so around .136 thick will be fine. This does not need to fit snug as the slot in the arbor is a good .020 more in thickness. The wedge is not stopping the barrel from a spin motion. That is the job of the twin alignment pins. The wedge should not interfere with the pin alignment in any way.

After this flip the wedge front edge up and on a 2 degree angle. Why 2 degrees? Well my frame has slots .550 long on the left side and .525 0n the right side and being .755 thick this is 2 degrees. I take this as an indication that 2 degrees would be correct. Any less would be too difficult to fetch up correctly, any more takes away from the strength friction factor of the wedge staying put. My wedge ended up a width of .550 on the left side and .510 on the right side. Go slowly and checking to get proper fit, can be taken undersized very easily. Then debur and round edges.

View attachment 255726

Heat up to orange red (Allis-Chalmers) and dip in oil for hardening.

Draw back to a gun metal blue color for about 54 rc

View attachment 255728

So this is what we wind up with.

The spring has that upward angle that was wanted.

View attachment 255729

New wedge stops just clearing right side.

And give plenty of room for wear if needed deeper.

And hooks on the screw on left side, but also allowing wedge to be pulled out to clear arbor for barrel removal. And stays hooked under screw. So the chance of losing the wedge is kept to a minimum. Well there are probably many other ways a wedge can be made, but this is showing one way. Measurements were proper for my handgun, others might be very different.

View attachment 255730

I make wedges as well and have a few different opinions from your thinking.
1. All factory wedges I have checked with a machinist protractor register 5 degrees .
2. The front of the barrel slots are irrelevant all they need do is stay clear of the wedge front so as not to impede full support at the front of the arbor slot. The rear barrel slots carry the load and need to be square with one another.
3. Thickness is important if fit in parallel to the arbor slot width as it helps support the lug pins against torque from bullet rotation and when fit up snug helps support the wedge from backing out.
4. No spring is needed on a wedge to hold it captive . All that is needed is to ball mill a slot in the top with a blind end to stop at the keep screw when withdrawn . This is also where full wedge thickness works on your behalf as it will not flop up and down as much when fully withdrawn..
I use both A-2 and O-1 the later being much easier to heat treat but shows more heat distortion in precision parts .
Click on photos to enlarge.

 

[Rich44]

M.De Land - Thanks for your reply. It is always interesting to understand how other mechanic's skin the cat also. A lot of my knowledge did come from observing and learning from others. You certainly have a right to make known and disagree with my steps. But for the time being I feel very comfortable with the process that I have shown and the reasoning behind each step. Again thanks for your input. If there is anything I need to explain in more detail please advise.

 

[Ed C.]

I don’t have an outfitted shop or a Ph.D in metalworking.

Why not just buy one from VTI?

It is a simple matter of doing what you love.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

And I bought a new one, that does not fit as nice as that one.

 

[45D]

I make wedges as well and have a few different opinions from your thinking.
1. All factory wedges I have checked with a machinist protractor register 5 degrees .
2. The front of the barrel slots are irrelevant all they need do is stay clear of the wedge front so as not to impede full support at the front of the arbor slot. The rear barrel slots carry the load and need to be square with one another.
3. Thickness is important if fit in parallel to the arbor slot width as it helps support the lug pins against torque from bullet rotation and when fit up snug helps support the wedge from backing out.
4. No spring is needed on a wedge to hold it captive . All that is needed is to ball mill a slot in the top with a blind end to stop at the keep screw when withdrawn . This is also where full wedge thickness works on your behalf as it will not flop up and down as much when fully withdrawn..
I use both A-2 and O-1 the later being much easier to heat treat but shows more heat distortion in precision parts .
Click on photos to enlarge.

1. Since I can't see the measurement in your pic, I assume the reading is 5° total? ( that'd be 2.5° per side?) So, there's 1° difference? ( I'm also assuming Rich44's measurement was 2° per side). So, it's kind of a moot point.
2. I agree.
3. Width to marry the assemblies (front to back) is the most (only) important dimension, rotation is checked sufficiently with the arbor diameter fitment ( locating the barrel assy) with locating pins.


4. That's true to a point but, the original straight cut to only allow the spring clearance leaves more material (strength).

To wit, my factory wedge in my '60 Army shows daylight across the top (clearance). The fact that this revolver's wedge is still perfect after shooting 45acp AND 45acp+ p's ( all but 50 being jacketed and /or full metal jacket) negates the need to arrest rotational force.
My particular setup only makes use of the spring as a "capture" element. I would submit that a solid wedge (no groove at all) with an "engagement cut" for the head of a clearanced screw head to engage would be best. Of course, the adjustable bearing would play prominent in that instance.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

1. Since I can't see the measurement in your pic, I assume the reading is 5° total? ( that'd be 2.5° per side?) So, there's 1° difference? ( I'm also assuming Rich44's measurement was 2° per side). So, it's kind of a moot point.
2. I agree.
3. Width to marry the assemblies (front to back) is the most (only) important dimension, rotation is checked sufficiently with the arbor diameter fitment ( locating the barrel assy) with locating pins.


4. That's true to a point but, the original straight cut to only allow the spring clearance leaves more material (strength).

To wit, my factory wedge in my '60 Army shows daylight across the top (clearance). The fact that this revolver's wedge is still perfect after shooting 45acp AND 45acp+ p's ( all but 50 being jacketed and /or full metal jacket) negates the need to arrest rotational force.
My particular setup only makes use of the spring as a "capture" element. I would submit that a solid wedge (no groove at all) with an "engagement cut" for the head of a clearanced screw head to engage would be best. Of course, the adjustable bearing would play prominent in that instance.

View attachment 255888


Mike

Two points Mike, if you look at the wedge picture end on you will see less material is removed with a ball mill and no spring clearance cut below it than if milled for a spring. The wedge winds up with more mass not less.
Secondly in the same picture you will see no gaps in the mated wedge fit between the barrel slot top and back . This aids in wedge retention along with help in rotational support to the lug pins which have to have some tolerance to be able to slip fit together just as the arbor has in it's well.. The more of these slip fit tolerances one can firm up the more rigid the gun will be and the less it will flex/move when fired.
End fitting of arbors is a good example of this as well.
Same is true in take down rifles after they have some wear if no slack take up nut or screw is present.

 

[45D]

Two points Mike, if you look at the wedge picture end on you will see less material is removed with a ball mill and no spring clearance cut below it than if milled for a spring. The wedge winds up with more mass not less.
Secondly in the same picture you will see no gaps in the mated wedge fit between the barrel slot top and back . This aids in wedge retention along with help in rotational support to the lug pins which have to have some tolerance to be able to slip fit together just as the arbor has in it's well.. The more of these slip fit tolerances one can firm up the more rigid the gun will be and the less it will flex/move when fired.
End fitting of arbors is a good example of this as well.
Same is true in take down rifles after they have some wear if no slack take up nut or screw is present.

First point understood but my point is NO groove cut but just a clearance cut for the wedge screw head would be best.
Secondly, doesn't matter, wedge definitely has sufficient friction (front to back, especially in a cap gun) to retain it. Obviously mine doesn't need "full" top to bottom filling to not be disturbed. I agree, a "good" fitting wedge (top to bottom) is nice but not necessary. Again, rotational force isn't a problem, even with 220 gr. jacketed bullets screaming down the barrel at 1000+fps.

Mike

 

[Rich44]

Folks - I have submitted this post on making the wedge to show how it can be done and look very similar to the original with correct fit. Am sorry the discussion of making a wedge is such a wedge between people. It is very much recognized that opinions are very much like noses, everybody has one. The procedure and steps that were pictured gave me the product that I was wanting and seems to work just fine for my 1860. I will take the time to explain two controversial subjects on a wedge. But I will honor what works for other people is just fine with me, but just not on my handgun.

1- Why only 2 degrees on the front edge of the wedge?

The measurement of the length of the wedge slot on the barrel assembly on my Uberti measures .549 on the left side and .523 on the right side. Knowing the barrel frame is .735 wide and the difference from the slots is .026 the trig function shows us 2 degrees angle. Making a wedge any more than 2 degrees in this job is counterproductive in that with a steeper angle it applies less friction on the front slot in the arbor. Just no reason from a mechanical stand point to make it more.

2- The myth about the barrel rotating on the arbor do to force.

The slot in the barrel frame is .138 in thickness, the slot in the arbor is .159 in thickness. So a wedge for this handgun cannot be over .138 thick and since both slots are on the center line that gives .010 clearance on each side between wedge and arbor slot. And yes that design is correct as not to let alignment of the 2 slots to interfere with the twin alignment pins which take all that duty. In the mechanical world you do not want too many things interfering with each other. The pins are more than strong enough to counter act any rotation force, it is just a mere fact.

 

[springfield art]

Making a Wedge for the 1860​

These are the steps that were used to make a wedge for the Uberti 1860 Army Colt. Used O-1 tool steel, other tool steels would work just fine also. Starting with a rectangular piece of the dimensions 1.100" long by .562" wide by .200 thick. The center of the wedge screw measures .250 from the back edge of left hand slot. So that is where the 5/32 slot for the spring will be machined. And that will be machined on a 2 degree angle, so the spring will tend to angle upwards. Left side showing.

Next use a drill a Number 45 (.082) and about .080 from the left edge, drill thru hole.
View attachment 255724

Use a 1/4 ball end mill and open slot up for head of screw clearance. But stop just short on the left side, leaving channel for snug fit on spring.

Till it looks like this.

View attachment 255725

Now this side is done and we need to flip it over and machine the thickness. The slots in my frame are .140" thick, so around .136 thick will be fine. This does not need to fit snug as the slot in the arbor is a good .020 more in thickness. The wedge is not stopping the barrel from a spin motion. That is the job of the twin alignment pins. The wedge should not interfere with the pin alignment in any way.

After this flip the wedge front edge up and on a 2 degree angle. Why 2 degrees? Well my frame has slots .550 long on the left side and .525 0n the right side and being .755 thick this is 2 degrees. I take this as an indication that 2 degrees would be correct. Any less would be too difficult to fetch up correctly, any more takes away from the strength friction factor of the wedge staying put. My wedge ended up a width of .550 on the left side and .510 on the right side. Go slowly and checking to get proper fit, can be taken undersized very easily. Then debur and round edges.

View attachment 255726

Heat up to orange red (Allis-Chalmers) and dip in oil for hardening.

Draw back to a gun metal blue color for about 54 rc

View attachment 255728

So this is what we wind up with.

The spring has that upward angle that was wanted.

View attachment 255729

New wedge stops just clearing right side.

And give plenty of room for wear if needed deeper.

And hooks on the screw on left side, but also allowing wedge to be pulled out to clear arbor for barrel removal. And stays hooked under screw. So the chance of losing the wedge is kept to a minimum. Well there are probably many other ways a wedge can be made, but this is showing one way. Measurements were proper for my handgun, others might be very different.

View attachment 255730

Wow, super! You could charge a goodly amount for these; I bet you'd get a fine number of requests if you offered these; Some mfgr. who could spit out a few dozen a week would clean up, and the 'shipping' isn't a problem; just a small padded mailer. Nice work!!

 

[M. De Land]

Folks - I have submitted this post on making the wedge to show how it can be done and look very similar to the original with correct fit. Am sorry the discussion of making a wedge is such a wedge between people. It is very much recognized that opinions are very much like noses, everybody has one. The procedure and steps that were pictured gave me the product that I was wanting and seems to work just fine for my 1860. I will take the time to explain two controversial subjects on a wedge. But I will honor what works for other people is just fine with me, but just not on my handgun.

1- Why only 2 degrees on the front edge of the wedge?

The measurement of the length of the wedge slot on the barrel assembly on my Uberti measures .549 on the left side and .523 on the right side. Knowing the barrel frame is .735 wide and the difference from the slots is .026 the trig function shows us 2 degrees angle. Making a wedge any more than 2 degrees in this job is counterproductive in that with a steeper angle it applies less friction on the front slot in the arbor. Just no reason from a mechanical stand point to make it more.
View attachment 255945
View attachment 255946
View attachment 255947

2- The myth about the barrel rotating on the arbor do to force.

The slot in the barrel frame is .138 in thickness, the slot in the arbor is .159 in thickness. So a wedge for this handgun cannot be over .138 thick and since both slots are on the center line that gives .010 clearance on each side between wedge and arbor slot. And yes that design is correct as not to let alignment of the 2 slots to interfere with the twin alignment pins which take all that duty. In the mechanical world you do not want too many things interfering with each other. The pins are more than strong enough to counter act any rotation force, it is just a mere fact.

View attachment 255948

View attachment 255949

Good enough, in gun school and practice I've learned tight tolerance snug fit and practial simplicity in general is what we strive for limiting any movement not necessary to reliable function which promotes longevity and accuracy. This thinking has served me well for over four decades of continuous gun work.
Different opinions and ideas are what make these forums interesting and instructive.

 

[Pete453]

M. DeLand,
What brand and which revolver did your factory wedge come from? I just this week measured one for my Uberti Navy and got 2° also. .035/inch=2°. I'm wondering if the different platforms use different angles?
I made one like a Pocket police wedge with a clearance groove for the screw, and tempered to a straw color. I don't remember what O1 Rockwells at that temp.
Rich, M., do you guys think that's too hard? Seems Ok, but I haven't shot it much. I have a couple to make, I can always temper at a higher temperature with the new ones

 

[Pete453]

Rich,
Nice job and great writeup, BTW