making paper cartridges for cap and ball revolvers?

[Paul Weiss]

Does any one have detailed instructions for making paper cartridges for my Remington cap and ball revolver? I have tried before with cigarette papers but they didn't fit very well and i would like to try again if anybody can show me a better way?
Thanx, Paul Weiss

 

[Paul Weiss]

Does any one have detailed instructions for making paper cartridges for my Remington cap and ball revolver? I have tried before with cigarette papers but they didn't fit very well and i would like to try again if anybody can show me a better way?
Thanx, Paul Weiss

 

[rabjr]

There a few videos on youtube showing how to make them and use them. Might want to check them out.

 

[rabjr]

There a few videos on youtube showing how to make them and use them. Might want to check them out.

 

[crockett]

You need to cut the cigarette paper in the shape of an isoceles trapezoid. The long base is on top and that base has the gum or glue. On the short base you add a "trapdoor" or small square. You need to take a wood dowel and taper it. This dowel will be your mandrel. You mark a line on it to align the top of the paper and then you wrap the sides of the paper around the dowel. They should over lap about 1/8" and you use a glue stick to bond the sides. Now fold the "trap door" over the end of the dowel and once again use the glue stick to hold the trapdoor in place- you'll have to crunch up parts of the trapdoor as you fold it over the paper tube. Now remove your paper case and fill with powder. 18 Grains is a good load. Next place the base of the bullet about 1/8" into the case- it should fit fairly well- if it doesn't- remark your wood mandrel so the diameter is correct.
When you roll the paper around the mandrel/dowell, the gum/glue is on the inside of your paper case- after the case is filled with powder and bullet-lick or wet the top of the case and the moisture goes through the the paper to activate the glue. Hold everything together gently about 20 seconds for the glue to dry. The cartridge is now finished- store in an altoid can and use paper tissue as padding to prevent your finished cases from moving around and breaking.
If anything is unclear- just ask more questions- glad to help.
Caution: keep the cartridges covered while shooting- a spark will blow them up. Also- on the spent/fired cartridges: the paper may not completely burn in the chamber so an ember could be there- take a REAL good look at the chambers before reloading. I use a small rifle cleaning brush to brush out the chambers. If you want "to know" how fast you can reload with these cartridges- just do it at the start of the day with a clean, unfired gun. I takes me about 20 seconds.

 

[crockett]

You need to cut the cigarette paper in the shape of an isoceles trapezoid. The long base is on top and that base has the gum or glue. On the short base you add a "trapdoor" or small square. You need to take a wood dowel and taper it. This dowel will be your mandrel. You mark a line on it to align the top of the paper and then you wrap the sides of the paper around the dowel. They should over lap about 1/8" and you use a glue stick to bond the sides. Now fold the "trap door" over the end of the dowel and once again use the glue stick to hold the trapdoor in place- you'll have to crunch up parts of the trapdoor as you fold it over the paper tube. Now remove your paper case and fill with powder. 18 Grains is a good load. Next place the base of the bullet about 1/8" into the case- it should fit fairly well- if it doesn't- remark your wood mandrel so the diameter is correct.
When you roll the paper around the mandrel/dowell, the gum/glue is on the inside of your paper case- after the case is filled with powder and bullet-lick or wet the top of the case and the moisture goes through the the paper to activate the glue. Hold everything together gently about 20 seconds for the glue to dry. The cartridge is now finished- store in an altoid can and use paper tissue as padding to prevent your finished cases from moving around and breaking.
If anything is unclear- just ask more questions- glad to help.
Caution: keep the cartridges covered while shooting- a spark will blow them up. Also- on the spent/fired cartridges: the paper may not completely burn in the chamber so an ember could be there- take a REAL good look at the chambers before reloading. I use a small rifle cleaning brush to brush out the chambers. If you want "to know" how fast you can reload with these cartridges- just do it at the start of the day with a clean, unfired gun. I takes me about 20 seconds.

 

[Paul Weiss]

Is the dowel 3/8's ? Also is the proceudre any different for conicals?
Thanx, Paul Weiss

 

[Paul Weiss]

Is the dowel 3/8's ? Also is the proceudre any different for conicals?
Thanx, Paul Weiss

 

[Silex]

Hi,

this is the way I do it. It's most probably not historical correct but works for me. Any questions, please ask.

Silex

 

[Paul Weiss]

is there supposed to be a picture or diagram ?

 

[Silex]

Should be a series of pictures.
Does somebody else having a problem to see them?
I might have to check the webpage?

You can send me PM if you like with your email and I can send them to your email.

Silex

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Looks like a fairly simple procedure. Thanks for the pics, i may try this myself.

 

[Paul Weiss]

Got it now ! pictures are worth a thousand words!
Looks simple straight forward I will give it a try!

 

[Adui]

Got it now ! pictures are worth a thousand words!
Looks simple straight forward I will give it a try!

Ditto!!

Wife is gonna give me some STRANGE looks when I tell her I have to go buy cigarette papers :rotf: I dont smoke LOL

 

[Silex]

Hehe same here - non smoker!

A couple of words though, if you don't mind.
I roll the paper slightly to a cone shape because the dowel is 10mm (about 3/8") and only use the gumming in the lower section lets say about 1/4" this way the upper portion is left unglued to have some play to accept the bigger than 3/8" roundball. After a while you'll get the hang of it. Plus if the paper is long enough you get actually 2 cartridges out of one paper - no I'm not scottish :wink:
To close the bottom I only use hand pressure on the table top. If it's not holding tight for you, you can wet it a little bit - only a little bit the paper binds easily and it doesn't require a lot of moisture.

I selected the dowel by inserting it into the chamber. You want the dowel and subsequently the cartrigde the right width and length to stop with the bottom on the "rim" (lack of a better word) of the nipple. When you inspect the nipple there is a cone shape narrowing into the hole. The beginning of this cone you want the bottom to stop. when seating the ball/cartridge the pressure will open up the bottom and you'll have exposed powder.

So far I fired a couple of hundred of those cartridges and NEVER! had a misfire. As much a 15 reloads in a row. Some wiping down between the reloads is necessary, of course, and you probably want to put some grease over the ball and don't forget to lube the cylinder pin - this makes a world of difference.

Another thing I tried and use pretty frequently is making "pellets" instead of cartridges.
I only put powder and sometimes farina (depending on the load) in the paper hull and close it.That way you don't need a cone shape. You can roll the paper straight around the dowel. Loading just put a "pellet" in than put the ball on top and ram home - same principle applies as before. It is almost as quick for a reload. Similar to a field piece where you first insert the packaged propellant and then the projectile. That leaves room for playing with different RB diameters or if you are waiting for a delivery or didn't get around casting because of the weather you can still prepare the pellets without the RBs.

I frequently use the "pellet method" to be able to use lubed feltwads between powder and ball - that's even cleaner than over the ball grease.

Hope that helps,
Silex

 

[crockett]

On the dowel- it depends on what size caliber pistol you have. Let's say you have a Navy 36 that shoots a .380 or .375 round ball. A 3/8" dowel will be pretty close. The idea is you take a precut piece of cigarette paper and line up the edge of the paper with a mark on the dowel, then wrap the sides around the dowel and close up the bottom- either the trap door or a cone. The most important thing is to have the diameter of the open top of the paper cartridge an exact match for whatever conical you are shooting. Some conicals have a rebated rim around their base. I went with the trap door because that leaves only one sheet of paper over the back- the part the flash of the cap blows through.
Not to go over what others may already know but these cartridges were sold in "packets" that were little wood boxes about the size of a deck of cards and held six rounds. Some packets (Sage) had an additional hole with caps. The box could be two seperate halves (Colt) held together by a paper label OR a monobloc with a paper label over the open chambers holding the cartridges. With either box there was a pull string that the user yanked to rip open the box and expose the cartridges. These boxes and the combustible cartridges themselves combined to make a system. The box was really just as important as the cartridges. The user grabbed a box, yanked the string, dumped out the cartridges, and loaded them into the gun. If you want to play with this do so with a clean gun at the start of the day. My fastest time to load and cap is about 20 seconds. A cylinder change is slightly faster but not by much. The combustible cartridges with the box were essentially the speed loaders of the day. It should also be noted that almost as soon as Sam Colt came up with the revolver he also developed this system. It wasn't perfect, first padded cardboard containers were used (which is the reason the subsequent wood boxes are called "packets").

 

[Adui]

I wondered about the dowel. I bet Id get some REALLY weird looks if I took the cylinder with me to Wally World to shop for dowels :haha: . Just might do that! :rotf: Nuttin illegal about it, and as long as I dry most of the oil out it wont hurt the dowel either.

 

[Zonie]

A 5/16 inch dowel is .312" diameter
A 3/8 inch dowel is .375" diameter.
a 7/16 inch dowel is .437" diameter.

 

[Adui]

A 5/16 inch dowel is .312" diameter
A 3/8 inch dowel is .375" diameter.
a 7/16 inch dowel is .437" diameter.

Awww man!! Now I dont have a reason to have fun!

Seriously, thank you. I know what to get now and dont have to mess around with it. (Might even have something in my shop from my model plane stuff that would work...)

 

[Adui]

Turns out the business end of my turkey call striker is just the right size. Slides loosely into the chamber. Started to make a test run tonight, we will see how they work next time I get to go shooting!