Making paper cartridges-my solution

[Daveboone]

How does the painters tape/wax paper, etc. burn up, as well as the "cigarette" papers? Is there more accumulation in the cylinders after firing?
I have read somewhere the original 1860s and 1862s cylinders and frames were actually opened up more with the intention of paper cartridge use...which makes sense. I wonder why the modern replicas dont follow that?
I also read that a trick in old days was to keep a hat pin handy, and after loading the paper cartridge insert the pin through the nipple to open up the cartridge base. I use a large safety pin on a ring, so I dont lose it, It seems to work well, no hangfires/etc. after about a hundred shots with paper cartridges so far.

 

[TarponStalker]

How does the painters tape/wax paper, etc. burn up, as well as the "cigarette" papers? Is there more accumulation in the cylinders after firing?
I have read somewhere the original 1860s and 1862s cylinders and frames were actually opened up more with the intention of paper cartridge use...which makes sense. I wonder why the modern replicas dont follow that?
I also read that a trick in old days was to keep a hat pin handy, and after loading the paper cartridge insert the pin through the nipple to open up the cartridge base. I use a large safety pin on a ring, so I dont lose it, It seems to work well, no hangfires/etc. after about a hundred shots with paper cartridges so far.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think the tape is included in the cartridge. It’s just a spacer on the mandrel to flare out the opening of the cartridge.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Your cartridges look great. I was gonna ask if you’ve fired any yet. It seems when I used that much paper covering most of the ball I got constant jams where my cylinder wouldn’t turn. I used nitrated coffee filters with 20 grns of 3F.
My cartridge paper only covered about 2/3 of the ball.
Thanks fir the idea.

I don't think I understand the jamming issue. When I load it, I get the typical thin ring of lead that is sheared off but with a ring of paper. After loading all six, I give the cylinder a couple of turns while in half cock. That usually will work both the lead and the paper out of the way. I do have to say that it would probably be better to use something to carefully pick the lead and paper rings out of the way rather than turning the cylinder. I have in the past caused the lead rings to get mashed between the forcing cone and the cylinder. With a thin layer of lead on the face of the cylinder, it does not want to turn freely and is one more thing to have to deal with when cleaning. Your thoughts?

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I also read that a trick in old days was to keep a hat pin handy, and after loading the paper cartridge insert the pin through the nipple to open up the cartridge base. I use a large safety pin on a ring, so I dont lose it, It seems to work well, no hangfires/etc. after about a hundred shots with paper cartridges so far.

The pin idea is not a bad one. But with the combustion of the cap being forced through that little hole in the cone, I imagine that the concentrated blast is going to get ignition with or without cartridge paper in the way. In the last 100 rounds I shot in two different guns of two different calibers, I had only two delayed discharges and I am sure it was the caps I made that were the issue. The thing I really like about the paper cartridges is loading is much faster and less cumbersome. More time shooting and less time holding the gun in one hand and manipulating the powder flask, wads and balls with the other (yeah, I realize how that sounds).

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think the tape is included in the cartridge. It’s just a spacer on the mandrel to flare out the opening of the cartridge.

If you are referring to the tape I speak of, it isn't on/in the cartridge. It's around the mandrel and stays there. Take a gander at the pictures I posted.

 

[Blackpowderart]

With everyone I load it also shaves the ring of lead and paper....I give it a quick blow of air with the mouth to remove the ring of paper then load the next...I don't wait until all 5 or 6 are loaded cause I have had paperjams otherwise

 

[Joemolf]

I have to give a plug here. When I got my first 36 cal Colt I was fortunate to come up Eras Gone Bullet molds. The owner Mark Hubbs posted a video on YouTube (since taken down I’m sure) producing authentic paper cartridges using his conical molds. He showed a very simple method for producing them. The ingredients consisted of coffee filters soaked in potassium nitrate stump remover; a mandrel made by Kieth Manley which i am happy to say I own one of. I recall he used stick glue as did I followed his instructions. I’m sorry to say I kind of lost some interest in shooting my colts and Remingtons. But before doing so I made a bunch. I still have some in the safe and for fun just to see if they still work i load the up a few and off they go. My point is they are not that complicated to make. I too spent a lot of time researching. I’m not sure if it was Mark, Mike Bellevue Cap and Ball or other but supposedly during the war they used liquid glass. The stuff used today for gluing refractory to boilers burner floors. I actually found a pint size bottle on amazon. Never opened; though next time I get the itch I’ll be trying it. Regardless unbleached coffee filter paper, your favorite 3F, a mandrel, a Elmere’s glue stick (works perfectly) bunch of balls or conicals and you are golden. I bought a bunch of cartridge boxes from Cap and Ball from Hungry (beautiful replicas available today on ebay) I will one day have each one filled and ready to go. LOL Enjoy!

 

[Mica]

In over 200 cartridges fired, I've only had one delay to fire occur. I'm not suggesting you don't know what you are doing, but is it possible you are using too heavy a paper or using two layers of paper? The paper is so thin that it isn't difficult to accidentally have two layers of paper.

Yeah, good point Flint. I use the paper that came with Guns of the West. Didn't double up, but I probably just have poor manual dexterity to wrap them well. The hang-fire rate has been improving as I go along.

 

[Pete453]

Black powder Art,
Can you give us some info on that loading tool?
Thank you
Pete

 

[Joemolf]

Black powder Art,
Can you give us some info on that loading tool?
Thank you
Pete

There are a few mandrels available on ebay that look to be very good.
Search ebay for 36 or 44 cal. Paper Cartridge Former Master Kit
They look like they include everything. I just checked but quickly you may want a 36 caliber which may be out of stock. I have the original Keith Manley made them unfortunately I understand he passed a few years back. Maybe an internet search using his name will help you find a bunch. I know that many got on the bandwagon making them after his passing. Kieths mandrels in my opinion were the finest made from hardwood and caliber specific. The prices on these things including those cap and ball cartridge boxes have sored just like everything else today. There were aluminum versions which I prefer the master kit is injected molded plastic if I’m not mistaken but obviously work. Have fun

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I use this guys method, stops the paper from slumping.

 

[Joemolf]

Nice but I will stick with coffee filters or nitrated paper I purchased from Buffalo Bore and the template Kieth Manley mandrel comes with. After all is said and done either way you will have nice paper cartridges. I’m old and lazy i don’t want to have to trim anything. I only use heel base bullets no ball. I have literally carried them loose in my pocket for hours and they didn’t break which surprised me. Pretty cool stuff. One of these days I will make some more and try the liquid glass. I’m curious to see how that works.

 

[Blackpowderart]

@Pete453 it is the Crossen cartridge former....type that in on Google or Facebook and it will come up. You have to buy it directly from him. Shipping was fast and came with a few extras that weren't expected, once they became in stock. He is a one man operation. Alot more stuff comes
With it than I showed in the picture. Has a
Nice clamp that you put the paper under
And molds for each powder charge and bullet type so you use a knife or razor to cut multiple papers at a time. Everything comes in a plastic case to keep up with it.

Here is the clamp and one specific mold for .44
It isn't cheap, but I chose buy once, cry once
I shoot almost exclusively paper cartridges in my revolvers and I just make them in my down time at home when watching you tube or tv.

 

[Joemolf]

@Pete453 it is the Crossen cartridge former....type that in on Google or Facebook and it will come up. You have to buy it directly from him. Shipping was fast and came with a few extras that weren't expected, once they became in stock. He is a one man operation. Alot more stuff comes
With it than I showed in the picture. Has a
Nice clamp that you put the paper under
And molds for each powder charge and bullet type so you use a knife or razor to cut multiple papers at a time. Everything comes in a plastic case to keep up with it.

Here is the clamp and one specific mold for .44
It isn't cheap, but I chose buy once, cry once
I shoot almost exclusively paper cartridges in my revolvers and I just make them in my down time at home when watching you tube or tv.

Now that is cool! I’d buy one every thing on his website is sold out; understandably! Nice!

 

[Pete453]

Thank you, I'll look it up!

 

[Blackpowderart]

I send him emails sometimes , he always has responded.... he may give ypu an estimated time frame for what u want. I found him because of the wooden one, I don't know if he still makes it though and he told me the new one was superior, and I'm sure it is...but the wooden origi n al looks so good

 

[Joemolf]

I send him emails sometimes , he always has responded.... he may give ypu an estimated time frame for what u want. I found him because of the wooden one, I don't know if he still makes it though and he told me the new one was superior, and I'm sure it is...but the wooden origi n al looks so good

Well thanks I actually did email him and yes I agree the wooden one is really nice. I’ll follow up if he replies

 

[Blackpowderart]

His Facebook has alot of cool informative videos, surprised he's not on here

 

[Joemolf]

His Facebook has alot of cool informative videos, surprised he's not on here

I’m probably one of not many that doesn’t have a Facebook account. No real reason just to lazy!

 

[Blackpowderart]

I don't use my Facebook to post things, not anymore, I just have it so I can look things up, traditional archery groups and market place to purchase things locally