Making Substitute 4F Powder - Question

[stephenprops1]

Hello. I have recently aquired a Pedersoli, 45 caliber, Flintlock, Smoothbore pistol. I currently have a small amount of Goex FF and a few pounds of Pyrodex P (FFF) powder. I want FFFF for the flash pan. I was wondering could I crush/grind the Pyrodex P powder or the Goex FF in a Mortar & Pestel to make a substitute FFFF powder for the flash pan? I would like opinions on this. Thanks.

 

[hawkeye2]

Don't bother, 3f will do just fine.

 

[oldwood]

I have no experience with Pyrodex Powder. But regular FFFG black Powder works OK for the pan. If you're wanting to use some FFG in the pan , just grind the FFG between a large wooden spoon and some rounded object usable for a pestle to reduce the size of the granules . A cheap wooden hand driven spice grinder does the same thing. Beware though, if the FFG is too finely ground , as dust , it may escape out around the edges of the pan. ............oldwood

 

[user 49399]

I use Goex 2f for the main charge and in the pan of my Fusil de Chasse and it works just fine. I’ve tried Pyrodex P in the pan and it will only ignite about a third of the time or less. Not really worth the hassle.

 

[Zonie]

Hello. I have recently aquired a Pedersoli, 45 caliber, Flintlock, Smoothbore pistol. I currently have a small amount of Goex FF and a few pounds of Pyrodex P (FFF) powder. I want FFFF for the flash pan. I was wondering could I crush/grind the Pyrodex P powder or the Goex FF in a Mortar & Pestel to make a substitute FFFF powder for the flash pan? I would like opinions on this. Thanks.

Use the 3Fg black powder in the pan. Tests have proven that the 4F powder is only a few thousandths of a second faster and that amount of time can't be sensed by a person.
Also, grinding up powder will result in more dust than actual powder granules.

As for using Pyrodex in the pan, it rarely works there. Black powder goes off in a flash when it ignites. That flash is sufficiently violent to cause some of the flame to blow thru the vent hole and ignite the main powder charge. Pyrodex on the other hand does not flash. It burns in a much slower manner so it doesn't work well at all for the pan powder. (Using a long BBQ match try lighting a small pile of black powder noting how fast it burns. Then, do the same with Pyrodex and you will see the big difference I'm talking about.
Another thing about Pyrodex. It takes a lot more heat to make it ignite so you will end up with a lot of misfires just trying to get the sparks from the frizzen to ignite it. That same reason is why Pyrodex by itself makes a very poor main powder charge. I found out the hard way that Pyrodex, by itself in the barrel doesn't fire more than once in three black powder flashes in the pan.
If you must use Pyrodex as a main powder charge, pour 10 grains of real black powder down the barrel followed by a charge of Pyrodex that is reduced by 10 grains. The first 10 grains of black powder will ignite easily and serve to get the Pyrodex burning.

This thread is in the wrong place so I am moving it to the Handgun section. We talk about both percussion and flintlock pistols in that section of the forum.

 

[Musketeer]

Try a main charge of 2f and a pinch of 2f in the pan first and see how it goes. If it's slow, you can safely grind a small bit at a time down to a finer grain with a non-sparking mortar and pestle and try again (I wouldn't do more than perhaps a soda bottle lid's worth of powder at a time and wear safety glasses or a face shield just in case) . As above, Pyro doesn't work well as priming and will likely give serious hangfires as a main charge in a flinter. If you want to save some of your real black and shoot some of the Pyro, I'd do as Zonie suggested and load a small amount of 2f downbore first, followed by a charge of Pyro. Since this is a pistol that will likely only need 20-30 grains to shoot well, I'd try 5 grains of 2f, then 15-20 grains of Pyro on top of that and see how it goes. If needed you can adjust the amount of 2f up to Zonie's suggestion of 10 grains and try that (10 grains 2f, followed by 10-15 grains Pyro, for example).

 

[No second place]

Hello. I have recently aquired a Pedersoli, 45 caliber, Flintlock, Smoothbore pistol. I currently have a small amount of Goex FF and a few pounds of Pyrodex P (FFF) powder. I want FFFF for the flash pan. I was wondering could I crush/grind the Pyrodex P powder or the Goex FF in a Mortar & Pestel to make a substitute FFFF powder for the flash pan? I would like opinions on this. Thanks.

Some years ago I was low on 4F so tried grinding some out for practice sessions. Used a wood spoon and wood board in small amounts for safety. 3F worked best. less dust. If not a match shooter 3F works OK but 4F-7F works better if every point counts...c

 

[JCKelly]

Grinding gunpowder can shorten your lifespan.

 

[flntlokr]

You can safely grind powder down in a non sparking mortar and pestle (i made a wooden one), but FFF bp will work pretty much as well as 4F, so I no longer bother. I found that pyrodex didn't work well in my .45 cb pistol; I think the slower ignition pushed the ball out before the charge fully ignited; I could hear it burning off after the ball pooped out. Pyro requires pressure to build pressure in order to work; that is why it doesn't go well in flinters. I gave the rest of the Pyro to someone who was curious. BP rules!

 

[ord sgt]

Hello. I have recently aquired a Pedersoli, 45 caliber, Flintlock, Smoothbore pistol. I currently have a small amount of Goex FF and a few pounds of Pyrodex P (FFF) powder. I want FFFF for the flash pan. I was wondering could I crush/grind the Pyrodex P powder or the Goex FF in a Mortar & Pestel to make a substitute FFFF powder for the flash pan? I would like opinions on this. Thanks.

Pyrodex does not work well in flintlocks. Black powder is the only type of powder to be used with flint. Save the pyrodex for your percussion lock firearms. Pyrodex has a much higher ignition temperature than black powder. Stick with black powder.

 

[stephenprops1]

I thank all of you for your input. I have 5 percussion guns and thus far only one flintlock. I hope to aquire a flint musket soon. I came in to the Pyrodex powder unexpectedly and wanted to use it. I will save it for the percussion guns. I do like Goex and will get more of it ASAP. I might also try Swiss or Schutzen as well. ---- Again, thanks to all of you.

 

[smoothshooter]

Hello. I have recently aquired a Pedersoli, 45 caliber, Flintlock, Smoothbore pistol. I currently have a small amount of Goex FF and a few pounds of Pyrodex P (FFF) powder. I want FFFF for the flash pan. I was wondering could I crush/grind the Pyrodex P powder or the Goex FF in a Mortar & Pestel to make a substitute FFFF powder for the flash pan? I would like opinions on this. Thanks.

I have in years past crushed small amounts of 3f in a ceramic saucer with a metal spoon to make finer powder.

 

[Flintlock]

I've been priming with FFG for 25 years in all my guns, if lock is working properly and flashole is in the right position you won't know the difference.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

At International level Clay target shoots even a Few mili-seconds can make a difference.At a shoot in 1997 I was shocked to see dust leave the last 2 clays Rather that Chunks when I had to prime with C&H No.2 powder Instead of the No.1 Black Silver I had run out of. My error-My fault..Always double or treble check your kit.. Barny had his Gold..
The explosion effect was enhanced by Manton on his later guns by leaving that small gap between pan powder and touch hole has been proved many times since 1815.
In one of the fairly authentic film series of Sharp's films Rifleman Hagman can be seen crushing powder for priming his Baker's rifle.. OLD DOG..

 

[toot]

I have primed with both 2FG. ans 3FG. with no problem. back in the day the BRITISH soldier primed with the powder that was in his paper cartridge, right? so why the need for 4FG, to prime?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Grinding 2Fg or 3Fg does not make a finer granulation. It just makes crushed powder into dust. Fuggitit. Use the 2 or 3 and enjoy.