Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World Appreciation Post

[Coinneach]

I can picture him as Killick, actually....

Wouldnt he be wonderful in the role !

 

[pab1]

It is a great movie. Isn’t there a book series?

There is. The film is mostly based on the novel The Far Side of the World which is the 10th book in the Master and Commander series. I don't have them in order in this pic.

 

[Daveboone]

Twenty some odd titles, following the main character from his young days as a lieutenant through to becomiing and admiral. Any of the books can be enjoyed by themselves, but starting with the first lets you enjoy the histories and back stories a lot more. I am reading the series slowly for the 2nd time through, and am enjoying them probably more than the first.
Another series that is very similar but a bit more current in style is Dewey Llamdins series with Allan Llewrie. The first couple books almost put me off a bit because they were more detailed about his ...love life, than I prefer, but the character is young and "full of it", and quickly matures. But another great series to read. I was devastated when the author died, as I was eagerly awaiting his next book.

 

[TDM]

I discovered Patrick O'Brian's series in the early 90's and was hooked. Started acquiring his books already in print and looked forward to the new additions. As mentioned, I've read them all at least twice except the last one. I don't recall the title and don't have it handy, but he was writing it before his death. He must have been suffering, and it showed in the quality of his writing. I think perhaps the book may have been finished by another author. But the series is amazing. You get to know the characters and can easily picture them.

 

[Daveboone]

His final book was released only in the rough unedited or completed form. I too wanted to read it, but it actually was in too rough form to enjoy at all.

 

[docmel]

For you modern Navy guys: Cmon, the food, water, living conditions were manure. And yes, discipline was serious and quick to be served. No way I'd be on one of those ships

I'm a 22 year Army guy, and no way would I want to be on the ground in the old navy, revolutionary, civil war or WWI conditions

I was at the attack on Haditha Dam in Iraq in 2003 and we started to get 152mm Russian made artillery rounds walking toward or positions. (Where ITF were the intell guys on that one?) Now I know why artillery is called the "King of Battle"

Ship cannons, mortars, to me they are no different. And man, boarding ships in battle back in the day? No thanks. At least I had great medical and evac care when I got hit!

Someone said Olongapo (sic). I did go to the Phillipines to go to JEST training. Afterwards, we went to Olongapo City (after crossing the s--t river, more like a s--t stream to me) with some Navy Chiefs. Men, I have been to Bangcock, the party beaches of Thailand along the S China sea, some of the craziest places in S and C America, and some of the raunchiest bars in eastern europe. But NOTHING comes close to Olongapo. Las Vegas is a catholic school in comparison

I guess things are relative: To bore you guys, read here Battle of Haditha Dam - Wikipedia

I beleive a movie is being made. Allot of folks have never even heard of the battle

 

[docmel]

Back to point, I loved the movie. I dont beleive Russel Crowe could take on another role like that: I recently saw his film where he has road rage, and he looks pretty awful

Funny how someone said an inaccurate scene in the Officers mess about the sense of class and discipline. I am sure back then, discipline was very strict, as it had to be. Very rough conditions, pay wasnt that great I am sure, so discipline had to be not only strict, but punishment had to be quick. Supposedly on pirate ships, another subject, the crew could vote out the captain if they beleived he was not a fair or a reliable and competent leader. It would be interesting to see how the class system typical back then worked into pirate ships and thier crew

 

[EurekaRebel]

Of course, we all should know that in the book the movie is based on, the "French" ship that Cap'n Jack was chasing over the Pacific was an American Ship during the War of 1812.

The producers of the the movie acknowledged the change to a French ship for commercial reason.

If the movie had the English successfully defeating an American ship, the movie might not been very successful in the U.S..

I also have the whole series of the Captain Aubrey books by O'Brian and a very interesting biography on O'Brian himself. Great reads.

 

[son of rooster]

this is a good movie....the battle scenes are well done

 

[Coinneach]

Back to point, I loved the movie. I dont beleive Russel Crowe could take on another role like that: I recently saw his film where he has road rage, and he looks pretty awful

Funny how someone said an inaccurate scene in the Officers mess about the sense of class and discipline. I am sure back then, discipline was very strict, as it had to be. Very rough conditions, pay wasnt that great I am sure, so discipline had to be not only strict, but punishment had to be quick. Supposedly on pirate ships, another subject, the crew could vote out the captain if they beleived he was not a fair or a reliable and competent leader. It would be interesting to see how the class system typical back then worked into pirate ships and thier crew

I actually know Russ, we've been mates since 2005 he used to stay at our place in the mountains for some peace and quiet LOL.

And yeah he's let himself go a bit, believe me our Russ is a real bon-vivant, a very enthusiastic "liver of life" !

 

[Oldbear63]

Back to point, I loved the movie. I dont beleive Russel Crowe could take on another role like that: I recently saw his film where he has road rage, and he looks pretty awful

Funny how someone said an inaccurate scene in the Officers mess about the sense of class and discipline. I am sure back then, discipline was very strict, as it had to be. Very rough conditions, pay wasnt that great I am sure, so discipline had to be not only strict, but punishment had to be quick. Supposedly on pirate ships, another subject, the crew could vote out the captain if they beleived he was not a fair or a reliable and competent leader. It would be interesting to see how the class system typical back then worked into pirate ships and thier crew

I like the movie, but I was the one who found fault with the lack of class distinctions.
I taught a course about Darwin and his trips and in my studies one issue that was starkly different from our customs and morays of today was the strict class distinctions. Anyone who was in a class of leadership like the captain of a ship was a member of the aristocracy and considered above the others and was only spoken to in a reply to a request. The aristocracy only communicated with other members of the aristocracy, the lieutenants and lower officers were of a different class and the common sailors were below that (and were severly punished for speaking out of turn). This was typical of European's class based societies. In the US we did away with this system.
One of my favorite observations is how Americans greet each other on the street. When I am walking or even bicycling it is customary to greet or at least acknowledge everyone I pass (unless in a crowd or when I am unable to react). In my neighborhoods I see a lot of Asians, especially middle class Chinese who often don't yet grasp this custom; I still greet them. The second thing I noticed when I first visited Europe (the first thing I noticed was their plywood) was the lack of greeting of strangers and passers-by (OK, in New York or Beverly Hills you might not greet everyone).
The difference is, I believe, due to our new nation and its lack of aristocracy and nobility which started a custom of greeting everyone as an equal. When this first started it might he been a surprising and new custom, but it became entrenched in our American psyche and now we don't notice (unless you visit Europe).
America is different from Europe.

 

[The Black Tyrone]

Unfortunately anything made nowadays would look like the movie "300"....CGI everything and all scenes on a soundstage. Not to mention the dull gray tint to everything.

Which is why I jealously horde my Hornblower books and Kipling by the way, and passed on my Master and Commander books to a new generation.

 

[SOLANCO]

Good movie. But does not measure up to the book.

Saw the Ten Commandments movie as a kid in 1956. It did not measure up to the book either.

 

[The Black Tyrone]

Good movie. But does not measure up to the book.

Saw the Ten Commandments movie as a kid in 1956. It did not measure up to the book either.

 

[Coinneach]

I like the movie, but I was the one who found fault with the lack of class distinctions.
I taught a course about Darwin and his trips and in my studies one issue that was starkly different from our customs and morays of today was the strict class distinctions. Anyone who was in a class of leadership like the captain of a ship was a member of the aristocracy and considered above the others and was only spoken to in a reply to a request. The aristocracy only communicated with other members of the aristocracy, the lieutenants and lower officers were of a different class and the common sailors were below that (and were severly punished for speaking out of turn). This was typical of European's class based societies. In the US we did away with this system.
One of my favorite observations is how Americans greet each other on the street. When I am walking or even bicycling it is customary to greet or at least acknowledge everyone I pass (unless in a crowd or when I am unable to react). In my neighborhoods I see a lot of Asians, especially middle class Chinese who often don't yet grasp this custom; I still greet them. The second thing I noticed when I first visited Europe (the first thing I noticed was their plywood) was the lack of greeting of strangers and passers-by (OK, in New York or Beverly Hills you might not greet everyone).
The difference is, I believe, due to our new nation and its lack of aristocracy and nobility which started a custom of greeting everyone as an equal. When this first started it might he been a surprising and new custom, but it became entrenched in our American psyche and now we don't notice (unless you visit Europe).
America is different from Europe.

"I like the movie, but I was the one who found fault with the lack of class distinctions.
I taught a course about Darwin and his trips and in my studies one issue that was starkly different from our customs and morays of today was the strict class distinctions. Anyone who was in a class of leadership like the captain of a ship was a member of the aristocracy and considered above the others and was only spoken to in a reply to a request. The aristocracy only communicated with other members of the aristocracy, the lieutenants and lower officers were of a different class and the common sailors were below that (and were severely punished for speaking out of turn). This was typical of European's class based societies"

That wasnt the case at all in the Brit Army and Royal Navy (RN) although the stereotype has become embedded over time.

The facts are that a significant percentage of RN Officers during the Napoleonic era (and earlier) werent selected because of their nobility lineage, and Selected they were.
The RN really was unique in its stringent examinations from Midshipman (Cadet status) to 3rd Lieutenant (Lt) (pronounced "Leftenant") and up the ladder to eventual post Captain (a Ships command); which was the toughest selection and examinations of pretty much anywhere at the time.
Lets pause and remind ourselves that the RN was damn good at what they did.....consistently.

So how were the Midshipmen and Lt's taught and trained for recommended selection and acceptance into the required Examination process ?

They were initially mentored, formally trained and instructed by the Ships Captain and Lt's in the many command knowledge and skills required of both subordinate officers and a ships commander. None of this would be possible on board ship that was pre-occupied with any form of Class system.

The reality is that an RN ship at sea was in effect a constrained Island, expected to train and fight as an integrated, cohesive assault team capable winning any Battle its Captain chose.

"Flogging captains" didnt last long as commanders (witness Jack Aubrey's minimalist application of such punishment) and the RN Admiralty held Captains responsible (Court Martial) for any wastage including manpower; the fact is that skilled experienced Seaman were hard to replace.
If a Captain brought on a Mutiny it was he who was held responsible and put on trial.

In conclusion there was no room for Class distinction or Officer segregation on board an RN ship (although there was an applied limitation to fraternisation between Officers and the other ranking Seamen, simply to preserve discipline and good order.

As for the British Army situation of that era, here's a good presentation that reveals some very surprising statistics.



IMO I believe that its erroneous to limit the British Army and RN of that time, as being dominated and limited by "the aristocracy".

 

[Psycho Mike]

After a couple trips to see Vasa, I had a big soft spot for mid-1600s to latter 1700s military sailing ships.... consequently loved the movie, even with a couple "hmm" moments in there.

When I really got into flinters, I was very pleased to have the local "fort" (trading house, actually) to do some activities at. What really blew my mind was in my 9-5 a number of years later, I helped find part of the palisade wall for that same "fort" (shhhh....I may even have a few slivers that the archaeologist let me keep).

 

[RobertIN]

One of my favorite movies. Excellent.