Matchlock with sliding pan cover

[sheba]

Seen this online ,hand made match lock with pan cover that opens as the serpentine moves something like a Snaphaunce

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Yes, auto-opening, but that small button on the outside of the lock (shown to the left of the serpentine) automatically closes the pan cover too when pressed. There would be a small 'catch' on the spring, acting like a sear, that holds the cover open for priming, where the button then trips that sear.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Seen this online ,hand made match lock with pan cover that opens as the serpentine moves something like a Snaphaunce

Was this actuallyan item for sale, or sombody just showing the hardware?

 

[Pukka Bundook]

I have always wanted to make one of these, but couldn't figure out how to make it so a match could be tried with the cover closed in the usual manner.
Some daylight is beginning to dawn, stepped spring....

 

[TobJohn]

Here is a very similar one Armin könig replicated from a gun in Graz:

Matchlock Caliver, Suhl appr. 1610

Some doppelhaken also have these types of locks.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

I need to blow it up, Mr W.
Do you have a pic of the other side?

 

[TobJohn]

I need to blow it up, Mr W.
Do you have a pic of the other side?

There are some more on the link below the original image. For some reason, my phone keeps saving them in low def.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I need to blow it up, Mr W.
Do you have a pic of the other side?

The pictures on Pg 1 for how this post stated are large and clear.
Those from AK's site tend to blur as one blows them up, but you get the picture, no pun intended ...

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Wonderful clean work, Flint!
Thank you for these pics!

 

[Rudyard]

The pictures on Pg 1 for how this post stated are large and clear.
Those from AK's site tend to blur as one blows them up, but you get the picture, no pun intended ...

View attachment 288328View attachment 288329View attachment 288330View attachment 288331

Man's universal ingenuity ! This earlier super improuved matchlock ,then in South India you got the Auto pan cover locks of 'Tipoo' Sultan of Mysore ,How necessary either was No saying but they had NO TV so had to dream up something .I suppose . You can take overhead shots with a common M lock and not much shooting needed straight up shots . Might it be an earlier version of ' Poo's & grins' ?.
Rudyard's? museing

 

[TobJohn]

I wonder if it benefits shooting downwards, for doppelhaken, and more active and dynamic shooting, like with a caliver (the Armin könig gun)? By this point (1610) calivers were mostly relegated to town arsenals or skirmishing, which I could see some benefit to having an automatic cover. Or maybe it was just that the smith had some extra time and the client some extra money.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

What about this CRAZY idea~?!? First off, when questions like this come up, I always try to look at it from the perspecive of the shooter! If I were on horseback, with the reigns in my left hand, I could close the pan cover in my right hand, just with the fire lock cradled in my right arm - it wouldn't take 2 hands.

Thoughts? I would need it already loaded with a charge and ball, of course, but I can easily visualize priming it with the arm across the saddle to my hip, etc. Even the auto-opening feature would be quite handy whilst at a gallop. Bouncing around on a horse, I can see a scenario where a manually operated pan cover could jostle open or be bumped open, losing one's prime. Note the pan cover is held closed by spring pressure, so that too would help out someone on horseback.

By the way, I read the other day that the term 'fire lock' was 1st used when wheellocks came out, as they were the 1st self-igniting, or self-contained might be a better wording, arms that didn't require any external contrivance to fire them.

 

[TobJohn]

What about this CRAZY idea~?!? First off, when questions like this come up, I always try to look at it from the perspecive of the shooter! If I were on horseback, with the reigns in my left hand, I could close the pan cover in my right hand, just with the fire lock cradled in my right arm - it wouldn't take 2 hands.

Thoughts? I would need it already loaded with a charge and ball, of course, but I can easily visualize priming it with the arm across the saddle to my hip, etc. Even the auto-opening feature would be quite handy whilst at a gallop. Bouncing around on a horse, I can see a scenario where a manually operated pan cover could jostle open or be bumped open, losing one's prime. Note the pan cover is held closed by spring pressure, so that too would help out someone on horseback.

By the way, I read the other day that the term 'fire lock' was 1st used when wheellocks came out, as they were the 1st self-igniting, or self-contained might be a better wording, arms that didn't require any external contrivance to fire them.

I am not sure if anyone was producing matchlock calivers for mounted troops in this period. Dragoon muskets would have already existed, but all accounts I’ve read just list those as slightly shorter versions of regular matchlock muskets, and maybe a smaller bore. However, we have seen that the rest of the world disagreed with the notion that matchlocks couldn’t be shot from horseback. European cavalry history in this period is a contradictory mess to learn about, so anything is possible.

 

[Rudyard]

I wonder if it benefits shooting downwards, for doppelhaken, and more active and dynamic shooting, like with a caliver (the Armin könig gun)? By this point (1610) calivers were mostly relegated to town arsenals or skirmishing, which I could see some benefit to having an automatic cover. Or maybe it was just that the smith had some extra time and the client some extra money.

Yes ,, Could be that 'Ime easy Rudyard

 

[TobJohn]

Here is the doppelhaken I was referencing:

Hakenbüchse (W445) | Objektkatalog

 

[Brian Anderson]

Here are pictures of a snapping matchlock l made some years ago.
Both the pan cover and the match holder are spring loaded and released consecutively as the trigger is pulled.
Mechanism inspired by german strongbox latches of the period.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I did not know that the pan cover opened with a pull of the trigger on a snapping matchlock...I thought only the serpent was released! Much like a wheelock......thanks!

 

[Brian Anderson]

Normally they don't. On most, only the 'serpent is released

 

[TobJohn]

Here are pictures of a snapping matchlock l made some years ago.
Both the pan cover and the match holder are spring loaded and released consecutively as the trigger is pulled.
Mechanism inspired by german strongbox latches of the period.

The spring forging on this is amazing!

If anyone is planning to visit London, the Victoria and Albert museum has a really cool display of forged locks (the key kind) and it’s a cool way to see how the skills and techniques relate to gun lock forging.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Brian,
I'd love to see some close ups of how it all works!
Lovely job!
Is there a way of testing your match with the pan closed?

Thanks for showing it!!
When you post a picture, it will show up with the words Full Size, on the pic. click on that and the picture will be as it should be rather than the small image.
I have wanted to make such a lock, but never got around to it.