matchlock

[Paulussie0]

Hello !
Last week in Pfortsheim (Germany)I was shooting at the zone champonships with my matchlock .(the event Hizadai)
I was asked,when I was using a sling,if I could prove that in the old days,they used a sling also.
Has any of you a sketch or the title of a book where I can find anything about this subject.
It would be logical that they where used becouse the oulder crossbow had a carryingbeld also,witch can be used as a sling,and I see no reason why the should stop using it,at the introduction of the matchlock,and than re use it again with the flintlock.

 

[arilar]

Hi Gunman,
I looked at you shooting with that sling in Hizadai (came back from Pforzheim yesterday). Myself achieved 94 p. in that event= my personal record. Dont have any info regarding sling, though I would be surprised if it wasnt used in the old days in Europe.If a recall tells Sugawa in his wonderful book about slings used when shooting Japanese matchlocks. For myself I prefer shooting without a sling.Do you think it makes a lot difference for yourself?
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[Paulussie0]

Hi arilar , yes I prefer the sling , then I can let the tension of my left arm ,and let the sling carry the weight of the gun.
The disadvantage is the fact that my hartbeat is pictup by the sling.
Donald Malcom of the M.L.A.I.C. told me that he would search for evidence if the sling was really used in the old days .
If he (or I) could not find any thing , then he would be forced to forbid the sling , because there where protests by several shooters.
I think I can best start training without it.

Have a good shot.

 

[arilar]

Well Gunman,
As refering to Japanese matchlocks Shigeo Sugawa writes in his book "The Japanese Matchlock" on page 23: "There is a hole used for sling or rope in the center or bottom of the stock. In actual shooting, the sling prevented the gun from kicking up, helping to keep the aim steady so as not to overshoot distant objects. I`ve never seen a sling quite like the ones used in modern shooting slung around the shoulder".
I think slings on European matchlocks has been used but as you say may be hard to find proofs on to convience Bucky Malson and the other big boys. Why not take the question to the MLAIC discussion-site? Maybe the Swiss delegate Ron has info??
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[Light Dragoon]

I personally have never seen an illustration of a European matchlock being shot with a sling used as a shooting aid. In fact, the only illustrations I've ever seen of ANY European matchlock with a sling were those for Dragoons in the 17th Century. Doesn't mean that they didn't use them, but I've never run across any illustrations or references.

There are of course plenty of illustrations, references and indeed originals of wheellocks being used with slings for both carrying and shooting. But that's a whole different matter.

From what I have seen and read, all of the matchlocks used in the shooting matches from the mid-16th Century on were rather heavy, and were often as not fired from a rest anyway. You probably already have access to the various rules of shooting clubs in the German-speaking areas of Europe from the 16th and 17th Centuries, so I should think that there might be some statements in there concerning the use of a sling.

Of course, if the match you are discussing is specifically one for Japanese style matchlocks, all of the above is useless information anyway!

Cheers!

Gordon

 

[Paulussie0]

Is it possible to send me a copy of this page where this is printed ??
Is it not so thad the hole in the stock is used for the burning shoelace?

 

[arilar]

I am working on it. When my local data-expert (wife) arrives I will try to convince her about necessarity to give me the knowledge on scanning and sofort (if I can hide its connected to MF purpose)
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[arilar]

Gunman 100,
You have a message. eace:
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[magnus wiberg]

Your question on this topic was posted quite a while ago, but I found it right now and had this picture out of a Swedeish book printed sometime in the 70´s or 80´s
Magnus in Sweden

 

[arilar]

Your question on this topic was posted quite a while ago, but I found it right now and had this picture out of a Swedeish book printed sometime in the 70´s or 80´s
Magnus in Sweden

Hi Magnus!
Please Magnus, do you remember title of the book? What picture are you refering to?
BTW, why not post your nice "user Profile" on the "Welcome to the Camp"-topic. Good to have you onboard!! :v
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Paulussie0]

Dear Magnus,Is it possible for you to make a copyand send or mail it to me ?
I would be greatfull for this.(and lots af other matchlock shooters
My Email adress ie [email protected]
Thanks a lot

 

FYI, here a reference. It is the regulations for a shooting event in the late 1500s:

"The participants should shoot themselves, without arms and armour, with detached jerkin sleeves, without sling or lace or other help, with neither patched nor (?) balls, also without the stock touching the shoulder, and do their shots in a safe manner."

I am not shure about the translation for "gefudert" (maybe a felt plug is meant, as used in smoothbored sometimes). Does not mention the ignition type, seems like a cheeck stock and could be both, wheellock or a matchlock target rifle.

Robert

 

[arilar]

Dear Magnus,Is it possible for you to make a copyand send or mail it to me ?

Hi Gunman, did you get an answer? If not give me a hint and I will phone Magnus and ask. I will probably also visit him in January. I dont think he is constantly connnected to this forum.
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Paulussie0]

Hi Arilar , no I did not get a answer yet,
I would be pleased if you would do thad for me.
Thanks !!

Paul :bow:

 

[arilar]

No roblem!
Just reached Magnus on the phone. I think you will receive an e-mail. It may take a while. Magnus is busy working in his shop. Hopefully with my wrecks!!
ARILar :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[magnus wiberg]

Hi Gunman

Arilar just phoned me.

I must confess that I do not quite regularely watch this forum. But now I know, and my intention when answering a couple of weeks ago, was to include the picture. But I did not manage the technique.
But as you gave your ordinary e-mail adress I can manage it there.

Magnus in Sweden

 

[robinghewitt]

Magnus is busy working in his shop. Hopefully with my wrecks!!

Or maybe he's doing my wreck :thumbsup:

 

[arilar]

Magnus is busy working in his shop. Hopefully with my wrecks!!

Or maybe he's doing my wreck :thumbsup:

I have tried to talk him out of it, but he just dont wanna listen :shake: (just kidding)
Actually, I pleaded that he once in a while could take a glance on mine small objects. :v
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Paulussie0]

Hi gunners, back to the sling , I also have seen the reqest for the book from Mr Sugawa.
I have looked at the site that is mentioned and there is a picture of a converted matchlock to percussion WITH a sling , the exterior of the gun is the same only the lock is converted.
Now is it reasonable to beleve that there where matchlocks with the same sling
Sinds the stock is the same ????
An other questtion : is this just a nice bud expensive book or or are there thing disribed in this book that are helpfull ??

 

[arilar]

Funny, I missed that photo on the Japanese percussion. I believe the same sling could also has been used on a matchlock. But I also strongly believe that sling is a carrying-sling. With the butt slipped into the sling I doubt it can function as support when shooting.
Also found a print in a Swedish shooters-magazine containing an old Japanese drawing with a shooter using sling with a Tanegashima. One end of sling (or actually a rope) connected with stock (forend) and the other end of rope connected with either waist or locked under front foot.
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup: