Max recommended load for 12g Colerain?

[NorthFork]

So I've got this Fowler coming POSSIBLY tomorrow, at the very least by the weekend. It has a 46" long octagon to round Colerain 12 guage barrel (that I assume is cylinder bore). I know the barrel steel is 12L14. I DON'T want this thread to turn into a modern ordnance steel vs 12L14 steel safety sillyness thread. That said 12L14 is not as tolerant of mistakes and overloading as other more modern steels commonly used in firearms.

What would be a prudent maximum load of Goex ffg and lead shot? If someone does not want to publicly post their opinion, PM me please. Thanks.

 

[Magungo1066]

I personally would never exceed 110 as an ABSOLUTE maximum. Anything else is a jump in pressure and a waste of powder. You will probably find a sweet spot between 80-100 grains of powder.

 

[Musketeer]

I would go right to the source for load info: Contact Us, Colerain Barrel Co..

 

[tenngun]

I would agree about 110, more powder doesn’t equate to more powerful or longer range, in fact it can ‘blow’ your pattern.
The gun can handle a lot more. Should you try ball over shot again you could go big, but it won’t pay off in down range performance.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I personally would never exceed 110 as an ABSOLUTE maximum. Anything else is a jump in pressure and a waste of powder. You will probably find a sweet spot between 80-100 grains of powder.

Have you ever pressure tested a 12 gauge muzzleloader, or a 12 gauge cartridge with blackpowder?

 

[Magungo1066]

Have you ever pressure tested a 12 gauge muzzleloader, or a 12 gauge cartridge with blackpowder?

I am in no way an expert. I know that these guns can handle quite a bit. I was just saying in my opinion, there is no reason to exceed 110 grains or so. Just wasting powder.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I take it you have chronographed them then. Will you post your results please?

 

[BJm]

12g i use equal powder, equal shot by measure . 1 1/8 of 2f & 1 1/8 of #7 shot. Good enough for State, National & International trophies. I use exactly the same load for BP cartridge with modern straight wall cases then ditch the cases in the bin, a once only use

 

[jlatz]

I would agree with BJM. Just use 2 3/4 drams of powder and an ounce and one eighth or shot, a square load. For trap I have used this out to 20 yards from the trap house to good effect. Many times 2 1/2 drams and an ounce of shot will work well. Patterning with loads is a good idea.

 

[NorthFork]

Uhhmm ......2 3/4 dram is only 75 grains. I use 70-75 grains of Goex ffg AND 1 1/8oz routinely in my 19 gauge. Pedersoli who made that smoothbore and who is not known for 'heavy' loads, recommends up 90 grains of Swiss ffg with 1 ounce for that 19 gauge. I understand that this is modern steel vs leaded 12L14 but still. But thank you for your opinion (no sarcasm, I mean that).

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have a Colerain 12 ga but my barrel is 38". Myself and lots of others find that 1F is a better performer in these barrels. I use 90-100 gr for ball and shot, my shot groups and ball groups tightened up with 1F opposed to 2F.

 

[NorthFork]

@Eric Krewson

Thanks for the tip. Alas I have no Goex fg, just ffg, fffg, and ffffg. However on my next powder order I will get a few pounds of fg to try.

I just got off the phone with a nice gentleman from Colerain. He said, and I quote, " you can't load the barrel heavy enough to damage the barrel without the recoil becoming painful". We did make it clear that I was not asking about proof type loads. Only heavy hunting loads. We had a nice conversation about the subject. I specifically asked about 100grs +/- with the typical cards and wads with 1 1/2 to maybe 1 3/4 ounce of lead copper plated #6 shot for turkey. He said it was just fine. Take that for what it is worth to you.

For the sporting games like trap, skeet or sporting clays I do agree that light powder loads with 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz is the way to go. But turkey, geese, ducks, and the like require much more. In my humble opinion 1 1/8 oz of bismuth #2 or BB propelled by 75 grains directed at Canada geese at 30-40 yards is likely to wound far more than kill. Turkey and geese are large tough birds that require large shot and lots of it with enough velocity to drive the shot deep enough in to incapacitate. For example I witnessed a friend hit a Canada at roughly 35 yards with steel BBB driven at roughly 1350 fps at the muzzle and do nothing more than knock it down. Thankfully we were hunting on land with decoys and I way able to run the goose down and wring it's neck. Post mortem revealed a good dozen breast hits that barely penetrated the feathers, skin and fat. Obviously this was done with a modern shotgun but the same principle applies. Sometimes you need large heavy shot driven at high speed to do the task at hand.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the General Muzzle Loading Topics the Forum has a selection of useful information on a variety of topics. @NorthFork, you may find the following interesting and provide some insight towards an answer to your question.

Smoothbore Loads | The Muzzleloading Forum

Powder Measure Shot Loads Chart | The Muzzleloading Forum

 

[BJm]

12g i use equal powder, equal shot by measure . 1 1/8 of 2f & 1 1/8 of #7 shot. Good enough for State, National & International trophies. I use exactly the same load for BP cartridge with modern straight wall cases then ditch the cases in the bin, a once only use

just to clarify i am only talking skeet/trap loads not hunting loads, one time ( while helping a newby ) i did accidently load 2 measures of shot on top of 90g 2f & the shotgun leapt out of my hands.

 

[NorthFork]

@BJm

That made my day! 90grs and a double load of 1 1/8oz would be a handful!

 

[megasupermagnum]

@Eric Krewson

Thanks for the tip. Alas I have no Goex fg, just ffg, fffg, and ffffg. However on my next powder order I will get a few pounds of fg to try.

I just got off the phone with a nice gentleman from Colerain. He said, and I quote, " you can't load the barrel heavy enough to damage the barrel without the recoil becoming painful". We did make it clear that I was not asking about proof type loads. Only heavy hunting loads. We had a nice conversation about the subject. I specifically asked about 100grs +/- with the typical cards and wads with 1 1/2 to maybe 1 3/4 ounce of lead copper plated #6 shot for turkey. He said it was just fine. Take that for what it is worth to you.

For the sporting games like trap, skeet or sporting clays I do agree that light powder loads with 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz is the way to go. But turkey, geese, ducks, and the like require much more. In my humble opinion 1 1/8 oz of bismuth #2 or BB propelled by 75 grains directed at Canada geese at 30-40 yards is likely to wound far more than kill. Turkey and geese are large tough birds that require large shot and lots of it with enough velocity to drive the shot deep enough in to incapacitate. For example I witnessed a friend hit a Canada at roughly 35 yards with steel BBB driven at roughly 1350 fps at the muzzle and do nothing more than knock it down. Thankfully we were hunting on land with decoys and I way able to run the goose down and wring it's neck. Post mortem revealed a good dozen breast hits that barely penetrated the feathers, skin and fat. Obviously this was done with a modern shotgun but the same principle applies. Sometimes you need large heavy shot driven at high speed to do the task at hand.

You might be surprised by those BB bismuth, even at the lighter load. I use, and recommend you use a heavier load, but bismuth works good. It is not popular opinion at all, but I honestly believe that there is no such thing as an effective steel shot load for geese. We never were huge goose hunters, mainly focusing on ducks, but out of dozens of geese shot over my lifetime by me or others, I can't recall any shot with steel shot that came down stone dead in one shot. I did find a 10 gauge load of 1 3/4 oz of T steel shot that was as close as you could get to an effective load, but it was discontinued. Even that load paled in comparison to what BB bismuth in a 12 gauge can do.

 

[NorthFork]

I agree 100% with you. Steel is terrible. Most of the hunt club is either changing to tungsten or bismuth. Tungsten is not exactly barrel friendly so I've been using bismuth in my smoothbores. I still have BB and BBB steel left for my modern shotguns and will use it up then I'm going strictly with bismuth. I would not be worried about 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 oz of #2 or BB bismuth propelled by 90 or or more grains of powder for geese over decoys.

I'm convinced more waterfowl die lingering deaths from poor steel hits each year than would die from supposed lead poisoning from lead shot.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Unfortunately there is no way to ever accurately assess how many waterfowl are wounded by any shot type. All we have is our own personal anecdotes. This year I did have a first. It is not unusual at all to shoot ducks that have shot in them, often healed over. Well this year I was hunting about 2 miles from another group. One of the mallards I shot that day had a single steel shot in the offside skin. I was shooting #4 bismuth that day, and this one was a #2 steel, so definitely not mine. What I believe happened was the guys 2 miles away shot this one, either by accident, or a "miss". Either way, they were completely oblivious to having ever hit it. A single #2 steel had passed completely through the guts of the bird, just above the hip joint, and stopped against the skin on the far side. If I had not shot that duck, who knows how long it would have suffered. Just imagine that this kind of thing happens every day, and likely to everyone. Now, a single #4 bismuth pellet would not have done any better in this case, but being as it has far more pellets for the same weight, and you can fit way more in a shotgun shell, it is very likely my bismuth load would have struck that bird 3-4 times and killed it outright. Of course it is also just as likely this duck was one farther back in the flock, and was hit by pure coincidence. We will never know.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I shot a turkey one time with #6 shot, when I dressed him I found some #4 in him, healed over, he was doing just fine until he stepped in front of me.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sure there are plenty of turkeys wounded, but I would have to think the number is quite low, as to be insignificant. While #4 shot may pass through the breasts as really close range, for the most part, it will not as you saw. This is why some states, right or wrong, mandate #4 or smaller shot for turkey hunting. Because it is not normally lethal to people unless the conditions are extreme. The small shot does do a number on the noggin of a turkey. Even #7.5 works for the most part, although I stick with #6 and #5 myself.