Maybe the end of an era...what'll be the effects?

[roundball]

People buying "modern" Mlers aren't the cause of the small numbers of trads...

Well, there might be room for another view on that particular slice of your post.....and that is if those modern ML hunters wanted to hunt ML seasons, but modern centerfire-like scoped MLs weren't available or allowed in, then the more traditonal types of MLs would still be required, there would still be a healtier market, and the traditional ML focus area would not be in such a state of continuing decline, etc.

Now, if it could be said that modern ML shooters / hunters are only those who never used and would never use a traditional style ML, my view would be a moot point...but IMO, reality is that a lot of sidelocks found their way into the back of closets, gunshops, pawnshops, etc, in favor of modern MLs when they came out.

The market-place shrank, traditional style mass produced ML production fell way off, some company(s) actually shut down their whole line of business dealing with traditonal style MLs, etc.

 

[Flintlock58]

I agree, flehto. I enjoy shooting / hunting with ALL my guns which happens to include 2 custom flinters. I surely hope I am not looked down upon for using inlines too. I hunt with my black powder guns when ever legal to do so. I dont need a special season. I do support having special seasons though for the guys that want them. My experience at the gun range is that many sidelocks end up unused because the shooter gets frustrated trying to use them. No amount of help will change their mind, so they try an inline or quit using muzzleloaders. On the other hand if the guy I try to help seems to enjoy the tinkering as most of us here do, we have a new ML shooter , no matter the gun he starts out with.

 

[gifford]

Good food for thought in these posts; The inline is like the compound bow to some of us who hunt and shoot traditional archery equipment. I personally never cared for the compound bow but that's just me, it's still a bow launching an arrow. I went an additional step and make my own osage and hickory wood bows from scratch. There's another niche.

Flintlock shooters, caplock, inline, compound, tradtional and primitive - it's what makes us tick, some can do it all, some do a few, others just one niche.

Big tent, lots of room, we're all shooting our stuff the way we want to, also taking into account our state's regulations. Just my thoughts.G

 

[Vtsmoker]

I started as an inline hunter because of affodability. We have a ML season here and the inline gave me the ability to hunt that season. I have always been interested in traditional firearms and the history that goes with them but for me it was about the hunt. At first oppertunity I purchased not one traditional, but three... two rifles and a C&B revolver. Then I traded the inline for a COMPOUND BOW so I could hunt archery season as well! Funny thing is when I meet an inline hunter in the woods they will compliment on how nice my traditional is and have heard many times "Thats just too nice to hunt with." to which I reply "Why have if your not going to enjoy using it?"

 

[Norinco]

More like the inline is to the traditional as a crossbow is to a recurve. At least in MD that's how it is since crossbows are treated like vertical bows for hunting.

I fully agree with you about how nice it is to have people using modern stuff compliment you. At the university archery club, there are three of us who have our own gear on campus and come to just about every meeting. The other two have compounds with aluminum or carbon arrows and I have a Herters Perfection recurve with hand made wood arrows. They compliment me for shooting just as well as they do, sometimes better, when they have sights. They are equally amazed that I shoot blackpowder revolver and flintlock rifle.

 

[Vaino]

Again I don't think "modern MLers" have caused a decline in traditional MLing because the people that use them are mainly hunters and possibly wouldn't even hunt if they had to use trads. Traditional MLing must "live or die" on it's own merits and modern MLers and the companies that produce them shouldn't be blamed for our small numbers....it's just side stepping the actual reason....lack of interest....Fred

 

[Zonie]

I must ask you gentlemen to stop discussing those "other" guns on the forum.

While I do commend you all for your civilized discussions about them, as you are aware, discussions of those and the people who use them are outside the Forums rules.

Yes, I know (as do we all) of the impact they have made on the suppliers of our Traditional muzzleloaders but according to the rules we are not to discuss modern In-Line's at all.

Thank you.

 

[roundball]

Discussing "other" guns.
I know (as do we all) of the impact they have made on the suppliers of our Traditional muzzleloaders.

Agree...and that was my only intent / point, commenting on the market share / market place aspect of it all

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Fred,

You hit the nail on the head! I have been approached by owners of the "other", asking IF they could bring their rifle to our League match. My answer has always been, "Sure, but you'll be the only person with one, so why don't you try shooting one of my 4 sidelocks?". That's when the stupid look starts on their faces. Then I remind them that our C.O.F. is 20 shots, and they start adding-up the dollars it takes to shoot that much plastic, let alone the cleaning required to get the plastic out of the bore DURING the shoot.

Maybe we shouldn't be conversing about this, and Zonie is right. But in my experience, most shooters are just CHEAP! Translation: It costs too much to shoot plastic when an animal isn't in front of the sights, so they don't pick-up a sidelock and shoot it a few hundred times, waiting for it to "settle-in". It's all about the "attitude" and "approach". It's considered a waste of time to learn how to break-in a sidelock, let alone a flinter.

Now and again, there are some who take me up on the offer of a loaner (that they don't have to clean), and some of them get hooked just like I did way back then, so there's still hope :thumbsup: .

Dave

 

[Vaino]

Rules are rules I guess but what are we afraid of? No one is saying that this "naughty word gun" should be used, it's just being used in context of the subject being discussed. How can this topic be fully discussed w/o mentioning this "naughty word gun" when so much of the blame for the small numbers of traditional MLers, is assigned to it by many trads? Oh well...Fred

 

[gordy]

I hope my comments can be considerd as an overview and not as anything political. As I will try not to singlr out any individual politician or party !BUT , after many years as a gun owner , hunter abd general sportsmen , I believe that as the federal goverment , made available more and more funds to local school districs , they ( the federal agency overseeing the local ( state gov.) kept attaching more restrictions on the the funding to get control of the education system ! Of corse once a distric accepted the funding that districs budget became dependent on receiving that funding to keep their budget solvent .
So what it boils down to is a form of "blackmail" the local boards had to accept the conditions imposed by the feds to keep the money comming ! One of the conditions being the so-called "zero tolerance' of fireams . One former Pres. actually made a statement that the Constitution was an antiquated document and should be changed . The wife of this man is now in a political position to sell our rights down the river to the member countries of the UN .
I won't elaborate further , but if you all think about it you'll get the idea . The comment , out of sight , out of mind is the tactic that has and is being used as we converse here . If we as supporters and champions of the Constitution\/ Bill of rights , don't take a greater part in controll in whats being taught about our history , and the importance of firearms to that history , it will be only a short time to the point of no return .
There is no question that the latest failure of our economic system has contributed to the problem ! BUT ! untill we make it clear to the congress and the administration in the whit houe that we no longer will tolerate the attacks on our RIGHTs specified in those sacred documents , Then it's but a matter of time before they are made obsolete .
It matters , not what party is in office we need to send a strong message to them all that we can no longer tolerate the attacks on our RIGHTs by the ver goverment officials "sworn' to uphold and protect those RIGHTs .
If the this can be construed to be a politcal statement then remove it from the the forum , but it was not intended to be so ! :v :thumbsup:

 

[ohio ramrod]

As a substitute teacher as well as a buckskinner I see a big decline in all historical and educational "hobbies". When was the last time any of us has done a presentation for the boy scouts, a 4 H shooting club, or any other youth group. At both this years Eastern and Old Northwest I met a couple just starting muzzle loading and roundezvous-both couples were in their early 60's! We need to get out the message that living history is FUN before we can expect the kids of today to become the buckskinners of tomorrow!

 

[atki]

Here in San Diego, a couple of us rendezvous guys started a mountain man rendezvous for older Boy Scouts. This year we visited six scout units, two camporees and a few community events. Brought hawks & knives for them to throw and guns to handle.

This was our tenth year and we had 320 participants. The staff is made up of some good scouters and some good re-enactors.

A number of the adults are attending rendezvous regularly and a bunch of the youth are involved now. I can't believe how many have bought guns after shooting them.

You want to sell something, you have to let people try it!

Here is a link to our website:
www.VarsityRendezvous.com

WB

 

[Norinco]

Pretty soon. I'm trying to get the adult leaders in the scout troop I came from to let me do some stuff with them. I'll probably start with traditional archery since I have the university club's equipment at my disposal.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I think that it's GREAT for an Eagle to stay INVOLVED :hatsoff: . Continued success with your endeavors!

Dave
Eagle Dad

 

[nchawkeye]

A couple of observations...First, production rifles never appealed to me...My first was a Bob Watts flintlock I bought in Atlanta for $470 back in 1977...I was 23 and at that time I knew the difference between a fine, hand made firearm and mass produced firearms...

By the late 80s, I was married, had small children and wanted a larger bore and also wanted to try my hand at making a flintlock...I had hunted with that Bob Watts gun for several years and had also competed in and won a few local muzzleloading shooting matches...

During this time the local hunters that were buying the "Hawken" styled rifles to deer hunt were bringing them to me to help them work up loads and show them the basics...

One by one, these guys quit hunting with side hammers...Why???

Because these guns weren't very reliable...My flintlock was more reliable day in and day out than what they had...


As mentioned, we need to be doing more to help promote the history of our Nation and the role these fine guns had in that history...

For over 25 years, I have been giving talks to not only Boy Scout groups but to pubilc schools here in North Carolina as well...

Those who think that you can't take a gun into schools are mistaken, in fact, I take two...Because I am there as an expert in the subject of American Long Rifles or the Colonial Era and am giving demonstrations it is perfectly legal...

I don't go into our schools to make a political statement but as a historian...It's pretty easy being here in North Carolina to give them a brief history of how our nation was settled and how we had to learn how to hunt and live off the land...Then move to the Battle of Kings Mountain, Cowpens and even Guilford Courthouse...

These talk fit perfectly into the study of American History...We end the session with a live fire demonstration using a powder charge and a wad of toilet paper...

The kids love it...Here are a couple of pics of Slipperyfoot and myself at a Boy Scout Rondevous...

I try to let them know a little bit about the hardships that were endured while not only settling this Country but also gaining our freedom from Britain...

I emphasize the fact that the gun was a tool, used every day to put meat on the table...They were made by hand by skilled craftsmen...It should be treated with respect...

I had one fellow that went through my session make a flintlock for his Senior project at the local high school...

He is a Marine sniper and has recently returned home safely from his second tour of duty in Iraq...

We need to share our knowledge and love of the history that goes with our hobby...