Middlesex Village Trading Co

[FlinterNick]

I suppose that I am the most recent victim of Peter's shenanigans at MVTC. Last August (2020) I ordered some BP accessories and a musket. I waited until October to send an email for an update. He responded to look at his list. Did that. Waited until February with no movement or updates. Emailed again to politely request that the accessories be shipped because I would be needing them for a reenactment. He responded that he would "ship what was available." weeks later Still no movement. I didn't mind so much because I was unable to attend the event anyway. Waited until April and sent another email request to ship the accessories or I would have to cancel the accessories part of the order. Two weeks later (NINE MONTHS total) no response. I sent another email cancelling that part of the order for failure to fulfill as promised, and a suspense of one week to receive the refund or I would have to reluctantly cancel the entire order. I was willing to wait for the musket and told him such. Unfortunately, I had to send the ultimatum to make the refund or get the credit card company involved.

Well, that obviously caught Peter's attention and he promptly responded with all sorts of accusations and character attacks. He was playing the victim card, claiming that I was "ripping him off", and said that I was in breach of the contract and responsible for the absurd 20% cancellation fee. He then cancelled the entire order of his own volition. I looked at my credit card transactions and less than half was refunded. So I promptly called the credit card company and began the dispute.

I was nothing but courteous and respectful to the guy. I gave him way more than enough time to fulfill even the least part of the order. He failed to do such and attempts to gaslight and accused me of being a thief. All this is documented via email.

Peter P. is obviously an unstable person, and is less than ethical in his business practice.

This is typical behavior of Pete, his unethical business practices ought to be reported to a business bureau of his state.

Sorry to hear about this, you’re absolutely not the first victim of his hubris And failure to follow through.

There are some folks that swear by his products, one guy online on YouTube, gloats about this Middlesex long land being so much cheaper than A rifle shoppe pattern long land however when asked how long he had to wait to get the musket to him in working condition he was silent on the issue. While RIfle Shoppe isn’t known for business turnaround, at least they’re good people of great character that will provide the product they sell.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

As a Business one can generate praise for their excellent treatment of Customers . If a number of People walk away unsatisfied with a number of unresolved complaints thats on the Business not the consumer. It appears that it is not just one or two People here.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’m

As a Business one can generate praise for their excellent treatment of Customers . If a number of People walk away unsatisfied with a number of unresolved complaints thats on the Business not the consumer. It appears that it is not just one or two People here.

Again the folks on here who own Indian made guns take things too personally. We offer opinions on them, nothing more. I’ve always advocated those to buy from Loyalist Arms, they’re a great business and wonderful folks to do business with, I’ve purchased several bayonets from them and I did buy an Indian made trade gun once and have since parted with it, I just didn’t like the stock I couldnt get it to take stain or oil and the lock internals were soft and chipping and gashing. Otherwise, everything else was fine, tempted to I would buy from them again.

I’m an accountant by trade and wha Pete is doing with his business is what we would call ’large, unusual and questionable’.

Middlesex Trading takes advanced credit card payments for muskets he doesn’t have inventory on. In turn, GAAP describes this time of transaction as advance outstanding liability which has an average turnaround greater than 90 days, this is basically a loan to Middlesex. If you hold someone’s money for more than 60-90 days you are now in-debt to them, the retail transaction is now a loan and interest is owed On that liability.

The simple fact that when someone does a stop payment or requests a refund when Pete is delinquent a year or two on the product and than charges a ‘Fine’ for breach of contact, this opens up his business to various issues with credit card companies, state and local banking etc. Possibly The feds.too. Transactions are contacts only in that you provide a product or service otherwise his fining folks for canceling on him is down right out theft.

Personally I would sue this guy and pursue him paying four times the cost of the musket as a loan owed,

Do business with good people. The Rifle Shoppe charges you when the kit is completed and ready to send, same with Loyalist, they don’t take advance payments on stock they dont actually have.

In fact I had called Loyalist Arms a month ago to inquire about their M1728 Charleville, they kindly stated they would not have that stock in for 8-12 months and possibly might discontinue it. Pete would take your money file an Order to India that doesn’t exist and then wait for you to beg for your money back........... go to loyalist arms.

 

[fireman1]

I’m


Again the folks on here who own Indian made guns take things too personally. We offer opinions on them, nothing more. I’ve always advocated those to buy from Loyalist Arms, they’re a great business and wonderful folks to do business with, I’ve purchased several bayonets from them and I did buy an Indian made trade gun once and have since parted with it, I just didn’t like the stock I couldnt get it to take stain or oil and the lock internals were soft and chipping and gashing. Otherwise, everything else was fine, tempted to I would buy from them again.

I’m an accountant by trade and wha Pete is doing with his business is what we would call ’large, unusual and questionable’.

Middlesex Trading takes advanced credit card payments for muskets he doesn’t have inventory on. In turn, GAAP describes this time of transaction as advance outstanding liability which has an average turnaround greater than 90 days, this is basically a loan to Middlesex. If you hold someone’s money for more than 60-90 days you are now in-debt to them, the retail transaction is now a loan and interest is owed On that liability.

The simple fact that when someone does a stop payment or requests a refund when Pete is delinquent a year or two on the product and than charges a ‘Fine’ for breach of contact, this opens up his business to various issues with credit card companies, state and local banking etc. Possibly The feds.too. Transactions are contacts only in that you provide a product or service otherwise his fining folks for canceling on him is down right out theft.

Personally I would sue this guy and pursue him paying four times the cost of the musket as a loan owed,

Do business with good people. The Rifle Shoppe charges you when the kit is completed and ready to send, same with Loyalist, they don’t take advance payments on stock they dont actually have.

In fact I had called Loyalist Arms a month ago to inquire about their M1728 Charleville, they kindly stated they would not have that stock in for 8-12 months and possibly might discontinue it. Pete would take your money file an Order to India that doesn’t exist and then wait for you to beg for your money back........... go to loyalist arms.

Good post. Nothing more needs to be said on this subject.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I’m


Again the folks on here who own Indian made guns take things too personally. We offer opinions on them, nothing more. I’ve always advocated those to buy from Loyalist Arms, they’re a great business and wonderful folks to do business with, I’ve purchased several bayonets from them and I did buy an Indian made trade gun once and have since parted with it, I just didn’t like the stock I couldnt get it to take stain or oil and the lock internals were soft and chipping and gashing. Otherwise, everything else was fine, tempted to I would buy from them again.

I’m an accountant by trade and wha Pete is doing with his business is what we would call ’large, unusual and questionable’.

Middlesex Trading takes advanced credit card payments for muskets he doesn’t have inventory on. In turn, GAAP describes this time of transaction as advance outstanding liability which has an average turnaround greater than 90 days, this is basically a loan to Middlesex. If you hold someone’s money for more than 60-90 days you are now in-debt to them, the retail transaction is now a loan and interest is owed On that liability.

The simple fact that when someone does a stop payment or requests a refund when Pete is delinquent a year or two on the product and than charges a ‘Fine’ for breach of contact, this opens up his business to various issues with credit card companies, state and local banking etc. Possibly The feds.too. Transactions are contacts only in that you provide a product or service otherwise his fining folks for canceling on him is down right out theft.

Personally I would sue this guy and pursue him paying four times the cost of the musket as a loan owed,

Do business with good people. The Rifle Shoppe charges you when the kit is completed and ready to send, same with Loyalist, they don’t take advance payments on stock they dont actually have.

In fact I had called Loyalist Arms a month ago to inquire about their M1728 Charleville, they kindly stated they would not have that stock in for 8-12 months and possibly might discontinue it. Pete would take your money file an Order to India that doesn’t exist and then wait for you to beg for your money back........... go to loyalist arms.

Very well summed up.

 

[AZDZRTFOX]

I’m


Again the folks on here who own Indian made guns take things too personally. We offer opinions on them, nothing more. I’ve always advocated those to buy from Loyalist Arms, they’re a great business and wonderful folks to do business with, I’ve purchased several bayonets from them and I did buy an Indian made trade gun once and have since parted with it, I just didn’t like the stock I couldnt get it to take stain or oil and the lock internals were soft and chipping and gashing. Otherwise, everything else was fine, tempted to I would buy from them again.

I’m an accountant by trade and wha Pete is doing with his business is what we would call ’large, unusual and questionable’.

Middlesex Trading takes advanced credit card payments for muskets he doesn’t have inventory on. In turn, GAAP describes this time of transaction as advance outstanding liability which has an average turnaround greater than 90 days, this is basically a loan to Middlesex. If you hold someone’s money for more than 60-90 days you are now in-debt to them, the retail transaction is now a loan and interest is owed On that liability.

The simple fact that when someone does a stop payment or requests a refund when Pete is delinquent a year or two on the product and than charges a ‘Fine’ for breach of contact, this opens up his business to various issues with credit card companies, state and local banking etc. Possibly The feds.too. Transactions are contacts only in that you provide a product or service otherwise his fining folks for canceling on him is down right out theft.

Personally I would sue this guy and pursue him paying four times the cost of the musket as a loan owed,

Do business with good people. The Rifle Shoppe charges you when the kit is completed and ready to send, same with Loyalist, they don’t take advance payments on stock they dont actually have.

In fact I had called Loyalist Arms a month ago to inquire about their M1728 Charleville, they kindly stated they would not have that stock in for 8-12 months and possibly might discontinue it. Pete would take your money file an Order to India that doesn’t exist and then wait for you to beg for your money back........... go to loyalist arms.

Thank you for validating the issue with professional expertise.

I pretty much told this Peter guy that he was very much in the wrong. Here's what I wrote back to his snide remarks:

"Sir,

I am generally a respectful and cordial, and most of all HONEST person. I choose to be respectful even when others are being rude to me. No one is threatening to rip you off because you never fulfilled the order. Yes, I requested several opportunities and ample time for you to fulfill the accessories part of the order. It is all documented. NINE MONTHS is a perfectly reasonable time to fulfill even just a part of the accessories part of the order, is it not? You did not fulfill the order. So in order to protect myself from your failure to follow through with any part of the order, I had no choice to cancel the entire order as a reflection of your inability to fulfill any part of the order. Don’t pretend to be the victim. I am the party who didn’t have any part of the ordered fulfilled.

No, I am not special. I am well within my legal rights to request a full and complete refund in accordance to YOUR terms and conditions. You failed to provide the goods paid for and promised to me, so you are in violation of you terms and conditions, are you not? You show me in those terms and conditions where I am responsible for any costs for YOUR FAILURE to provide any of the goods. Obviously you are not disputing this, and instead are rudely coming up with excuses and character attacks.

Because you have failed to follow through with your business terms and conditions, I have already filed a complaint and disputed the full amount of charges from last year with my credit card company. You can argue with them now. I suggest that you reread your terms and conditions, and attempt explain to them how you fulfilled the order, and how I am responsible for any fees cancelation or otherwise."

 

[FlinterNick]

Thank you for validating the issue with professional expertise.

I pretty much told this Peter guy that he was very much in the wrong. Here's what I wrote back to his snide remarks:

"Sir,

I am generally a respectful and cordial, and most of all HONEST person. I choose to be respectful even when others are being rude to me. No one is threatening to rip you off because you never fulfilled the order. Yes, I requested several opportunities and ample time for you to fulfill the accessories part of the order. It is all documented. NINE MONTHS is a perfectly reasonable time to fulfill even just a part of the accessories part of the order, is it not? You did not fulfill the order. So in order to protect myself from your failure to follow through with any part of the order, I had no choice to cancel the entire order as a reflection of your inability to fulfill any part of the order. Don’t pretend to be the victim. I am the party who didn’t have any part of the ordered fulfilled.

No, I am not special. I am well within my legal rights to request a full and complete refund in accordance to YOUR terms and conditions. You failed to provide the goods paid for and promised to me, so you are in violation of you terms and conditions, are you not? You show me in those terms and conditions where I am responsible for any costs for YOUR FAILURE to provide any of the goods. Obviously you are not disputing this, and instead are rudely coming up with excuses and character attacks.

Because you have failed to follow through with your business terms and conditions, I have already filed a complaint and disputed the full amount of charges from last year with my credit card company. You can argue with them now. I suggest that you reread your terms and conditions, and attempt explain to them how you fulfilled the order, and how I am responsible for any fees cancelation or otherwise."

I think you’re heading in the right direction with your claim against him. The only issue is Pete has control over your credit card transaction, if he hasn’t already charged you a 50% fee, I wouldn’t worry too much about it as the CC company can block him entirely. If Pete charged the 50% fee, the I would issue a claim in with the CC company.

You can also log a complaint to the local bank department in VT who will follow up with Pete on the transaction details.

 

[Rick Blair]

TG:

I am not particularly angry about his failure to provide an in stock item to me within a reasonable period of time. He gave a full refund. About the only thing that angered me was his belligerent and caustic attitude towards his own customers. That is pretty astounding.

He needs to come clean with those on his 'to do' list as to why he seems unable to finish more than one firearm in two plus months and how long they can expect to wait for their product. Then let them decide if they want to stick it out. Fat chance...

Be warned guys.

Scipio

It has been 3 years and 6 months and he has no clue when they may make that model to ship to him. With that kind of supply system, he shouldn't offer that model for sale till he has it in his shop. I paid him full price. I finally got a lawyer involved to get my money or my gun in 60 days, which is up today by date on lawyers letter. It might have been 4 to 6 days later that he received it. Still I doubt I see the money. I will have to file a law suit against him. Never dealt with anything like this. Hand made items I have ordered from extremely busy shops always seem to be In a 3 to 5 month time period.

 

[Rick Blair]

Gentlemen:

My advice, go somewhere else. If MVTC is the only place that carries the item you want, wait until someone else carries the item you want or have someone you trust make it for you.

Ordered a 'in stock' firearm from MVTC in early Nov. Although I do understand that it takes MVTC time to tune and prep one of the firearms they get from India, I figured six to eight weeks should be enough. After all, it was shown as 'in stock' when I paid for it. My assumptions were completely wrong. After eight weeks, it became apparent to me that I would not receive the item within several years, if at all.

You can ask the owner of MVTC any question you want and he will refer you to his 'Terms and Conditions' that he will emphasized YOU SIGNED. When you read his Terms and Conditions you see 'most items are sent out within four to six weeks, but some take longer -- much longer.' He will refer you to his 'To Do' list as the only means he will use to communicate with you about the status of your order.

Before you even think about sending him your money, you better look at his 'To Do' list first. Note he does not date anything. Then understand that no matter what you ordered, you will be put on the end of his list. I was over 160 on his list when I made my order. He indicates that he is working on a firearm if he notes "Waiting for Prep". In the nine weeks I waited, I gained six spots on his list. All six were from guys who apparently cancelled their orders. He claims he tries to update his list (only means of communicating status with his customers) once a week but it may be longer, much longer. About every three or four weeks he will update his list and if you want to complain about his lack of communications, he openly says he will 'delete your e-mail with no response'.

In the nine weeks I was on his list, there was only one firearm he claims that he actually completed. Do the math. His own work list was showing was that I would be waiting about six or seven years before he got to my firearm, that was 'In Stock' when I paid for it.

I cancelled my order, with a snide comment from the owner of MVTC, and about the only thing I can say positive about it is that I wasn't charged the 20% cancellation fee. Not because it is illegal either. MVTC has the legal right to charge you that money if they want.

Maybe this guy was top of his game many years ago. Maybe he can turn a mediocre Indian made muzzle loader into a work of art. Not sure because in the nine weeks he had my money, he only completed one firearm for someone.

Be warned.

Scipio

Havnt seen or heard much of anything out of him since May. Has he passed?

 

[Sam squanch]

Probably faked his own death.

 

[fireman1]

Probably faked his own death.

Made my night with that one!

 

[Rick Blair]

The FTC does not allow for open end delivery dates on a transaction unless both parties agree to this. MVTC has no idea when his gun shipments will come in, or when they are going to produce your specific model. His TERMS AND CONDITIONS, which he refers to all the time, does not state and open end delivery date. It states 6 to 8 weeks or alittle longer. According to THE FTC rules he must give you a reasonable time frame, not-or longer. If you request a delivery date and he says he can't give you one, then FTC assumes 30 days. This is for a full refund not minus the 20 percent and shipping charges as he does. Open ended shipping dates, unless agreed among by both parties, is not accepted ascending by FTC rules.
DO NOT DEAL WITH THIS MAN.
His health is going, he has a 10 year backup on orders and he is only averaging 1 to 2 guns a month.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

If you need to, buy from Veteran Arms. I ordered the English Hand Mortar from them and they were both very upfront and accurate, on the # of months wait to fulfill the order. Unlike other importers of Indian arms, they go through them before shipping to you. The lock I got was tuned and I could even see evidence (once the lock was out) that the inletting was corrected. I didn't even have to tune the lock myself or harden or reharden the frizzen ... it all was 'good to go' right out of the box!

Unfortunately MVT Co. has been going down in quality and customer service for years ...

 

[BrianL]

I am in the same state, about 75 miles from MVTC. After 1 phone call with them I ordered my musket from Loyalist Arms. For what that's worth.

I worked within 3 miles of the place and was not able to schedule a visit?

 

[Rick Blair]

I worked within 3 miles of the place and was not able to schedule a visit?

How can he stay in business? Won't the better business bureau shut him down. I did business with him not knowing anything about him. Most folks in the reenactment community or suppliers have been great people willing to do what they could to help you and work great with you. I wasn't expecting anything like hi..

 

[BrianL]

That was near 20 years ago, maybe he got better?

 

[smoothshooter]

Pete's wife once admitted the guy was hard of hearing and quite the cranky guy. He's also a fraud. The 'lifetime guarantee' devolved into less after my musket locks' sear bent like a soft 3 penny nail. Lock return was supposed to get it properly hardened, but upon return, it was evident the guy has no metallurgical skills, and merely bent the part back into place. I got out the Casenite & fixed it myself. I subsequently offered to do hardening work for him for any lock parts he cared to send me for proper repair, but never heard back from him. Apparently he's "waaay too busy" repairing all the dozens of locks that reenactors return to him.

At the last contact attempt a couple of years ago, his wife apparently isn't doing any customer service for the old fraud anymore, either. I don't foresee him getting any repeat customers because of his poor communications skills and lack of repair knowledge. With the absence of the courtesy of a simple reply on an inquiry, I assumed Middlesex as a business, had gone T-U.

As was already mentioned, Loyalist is everything that Middlesex isn't. I rec'd. a fusil from them & it was missing a lock screw. Quick e-mail to them & by the end of the week, the part arrived in the mail.

Sometimes hearing loss is a contributor to dementia, and can accelerate the rate of deterioration in a person that has already started showing symptoms. Just a thought.
Or perhaps he has always been cranky.

 

[Tumbledown]

How can he stay in business? Won't the better business bureau shut him down. I did business with him not knowing anything about him. Most folks in the reenactment community or suppliers have been great people willing to do what they could to help you and work great with you. I wasn't expecting anything like hi..

The BBB is simply a ratings system. It's like stars in a review, it can be gamed.