Middlesex village?

[Britsmoothy]

Guy n'gals.

Over here I can get one of these Indian jobs such as sold by Middlesex village on your side of the pond.

Over here they are proofed in Birmingham so that's good but I would like to know if anyone here has the tulle model and how the lock is? Are they a good reliable lock?
Bore size/s?
Any issues?

Thanks folks :hatsoff:

Brits.

 

[tenngun]

Based on info on his web site he turns out a good gun. The ones I have seen were heavily built and bulky. I think I would choose him over loyalist or discriminating general. You do get what you pay for. Based on what I have heard good and bad I think I would trust them :idunno:

 

[Grenadier1758]

My unit has used both Middlesex Village Arms and Loyalist Arms long land pattern muskets. Our early Middlesex muskets benefited from stock trimming but the wood was difficult to stain to a good dark finish. Later MVA guns were not as reliable as the early guns. Loyalist Arms long land pattern muskets also have heavy stocks and heavy barrels compared to original LLP muskets. I'm sure it's to stand up to proofing. The Loyalist guns had the more reliable locks when purchased.

We did have the MVA gun's frizzens hardened and tempered. They perform quite well.

My recommendation is to get the Loyalist gun.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks men.
Remember I live in Britain!

I have spoke to our importer about the tulle model.
They assure me out of hundreds sold very few issues have arisen. I asked many questions and feel convinced they are not trash!
I have asked my local dealer to get one in for me.
They come in the white. What are the options as to aging the surface home made as such? Would rubbing fouled patches over the surface dull it in time?

B.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

HEY MATE!

MVTC had a labor shake-up several months ago. This has resulted in very slow responses on shipping, very slow responses on emails, and even slower responses when taking care of any problems with the delivered product. Those that have gotten muskets from MVTC and found no problems have had good things to say.

Now I don't know what arragements your importer has with them. Down here just outside of Washington DC, the guy who deals with them drives up himself to MVTC's location, and picks out the muskets, trade guns, and French Fusils by hand, then drives back. If your importer has a source with a similar arrangement, then no worries.

I only mention this as you are so far away and the turn around time for returning, and getting a replacement might put you into next May or June. On the other hand the staffing problems at MVTC may have improved.

As far as the stocks go (this is true for all of the India-origin guns), well you know they are an Asian "hardwood". They sometimes have "soft" spots in odd places. They can be quite dense and if you need to reshape something like the finials at the back of the lock mortise on a Bess... they are prone to chip-out.

A lot of the guys that I know that have the MVTC or the Loyalist Arms, Fusils, stripped off the finish, and did some of their own sanding, then used an alcohol based stain, followed by boiled linseed oil. Some cut the BLO with 50% turpentine, some did not.

I hope this prepares you. They seem to do very well, function wise. I currently have a LA Trade Gun, and I painted the stock a reddish color with oil based paint, instead of staining the stock.

LD

 

[Artificer]

Now I don't know what arragements your importer has with them. Down here just outside of Washington DC, the guy who deals with them drives up himself to MVTC's location, and picks out the muskets, trade guns, and French Fusils by hand, then drives back. If your importer has a source with a similar arrangement, then no worries.

LD

This is a MUCH better way to buy a gun than just ordering one, if it is at all possible and for most people.

During the years I worked the NSSA Spring and Fall National Championships, we got our guns from both Navy Arms and from Euroarms. Now because we actually did repairs and trigger jobs and because we believed in good customer service, we got into the habit of allowing the customers to choose from the one to as many as half a dozen guns we had of any one type AND then we would inspect the gun before we sold it. If there was something wrong, we informed the customer and at the customer's choice, either fixed it or sold him a different gun.

At one shoot, Euroarms only had two 3 Band Enfield Rifles in stock and that was one of our best sellers. When I got the one out to be wiped down and put up on the wall for display, I found a serious problem with the lock binding up. So I took that rifle down and put the other one on the wall. Since we only had those two rifles and because it was before the period when we started getting gun work to do, I spent a couple hours fixing that lock in between other things. Of course it wound up to be smoother than any other normal lock one would have gotten on those rifles. So I put that rifle back up on the wall.

As it turned out and was something of a fluke, we did not sell one of that model rifle at that shoot. So someone got a rifle with a REALLY nice lock, directly from the Importer.

Gus

 

[Firelock937]

To knock off the really bright shine, many people rub mustard on the metal. It's the vinegar in it that does the trick. The wood can be really tough to stain. I've had better luck using a wood dye. I've heard of others using leather dye also.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I ordered a Middlesex Village Fusil a couple of years back. You've got to consider them as partially finished kits. After stripping and some wood work it looks like a showpiece. Back then, Pete's wife handled the store, the books and customer communications and was prompt, cheerful and helpful.

Pete professed a lifetime guarantee on his locks, but also complained about his heavy workload repairing the boxes of returns from reenactors. I got about 10 rounds fired from mine until the soft metal in sear and tumbler became bent and jammed up. It took about 3 months for return of the "repaired" lock, and it failed again after about a dozen rounds fired. I surface hardened the parts myself and have had no further issues.

I sent Pete an offer to do the surface hardening on his returns (that he was unable to do for my lock), and after multiple tries, never got any reply from the shiftless *******. Inquiries to his wife went unanswered. I suspect she's either dead or has taken their daughter and fled from the business.

I'd NOT expend any effort to even walk across the street to pi$$ on this guy if he were on fire.

NOW, OTOH, Loyalist is quick cheerful and seems to be on more sound business footing. I sent several requests for info on one of their guns & got prompt and informed replies. They were able to send me an unfinished stock, which did need some oil removal prior to final shaping finishing and staining. Buttplate, barrel and triggerguard all needed final fitting. My Loyalist lock is of great quality and needed only minor work to smooth it up - quality of which Middlesex would never fathom. Their business may have been respectable at one time, but today, from my experience, their guarantees are empty and worthless lip service. Unless the guy has had an entire personality transplant and is serious about his product quality, I'd eye him with suspicion. It will take a lot of serious work to regain confidence in Middlesex Village. I don't foresee that ever happening. They are either bound to fail, or have already failed.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks gents.
I won't be buying off Middlesex village but I am sure it will be the same product.

I will inspect the lock parts for hardness!

B.

 

[Sasquash]

Hi,

I owned a couple of muskets, proofed, imported by a local dealer from Westpoint Shuttlers (the former Albion Small Arms).

They were cheap, just that....enough for beating and abusing them for reenacting.

If you want a good gun for shooting, IMHO, they are junk.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Oh

What went wrong?

B.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I won't be buying off Middlesex village but I am sure it will be the same product.

It might be, it might not. There is a rumor that ALL of the India origin muskets come from the same place, that the barrels all come from the same maker, and that they are not marked as to their origin. Well I know that the LA muskets tend to be a tad different from MVTC and VA muskets of similar time frame, AND the LA barrels (at least four that I have owned) were marked as to their origin as well as other information.

LD

 

[nit wit]

I traded for one of their Ketland brass barrel pistols. I think the lock had been tuned, because it's pretty good (trigger pull). The problem I had was it shot a foot high at ten yards. I just made a high front sight and soldered it on. The India guns spark well and have hand made locks. The barrels are pretty basic but way better than the old Belgian barrels we used to get. They are clubby and have a lot of extra wood. If I was just starting out I would buy one just because of the price! When I started out I wanted a T/C Hawken, they were 150.00 so I bought lesser ones until I could afford one. Buy what you can afford and have fun with it. To the rest, don't be smooth bore snobs. I would rather have someone shooting an India made than not shooting at all!
Nit Wit

 

[Sasquash]

Oh

What went wrong?

B.

Nothing.

I used them until I gave up reenacting.

Each model had their own problems, and others that were common:

The brown bess had the first ramrod pipe of the same size that the other ones (the small ones). The barrel pins were completely loose after just a couple of cleaning sessions.
The frizzen last more or less 1,2K shoots and I sent it to a gunsmith who repaired it with a layer of fresh hard tool steel.

The 1777 had a major problem: never was a good sparker and misfired +/- 40%. It had a dark reddish stock but the area around the tang screw was yellow and it was impossible to stain. I sent the frizzen to the same gunsmith to get it repaired, but even with the new steel layer, it never ended misfiring.

The common problems:
-Both of them were made of some kind of steel that got rusted almost instantly. I had to polish them regularly, even if I keep them clean and oiled.
-Some friends broke their main and frizzen springs and had lots of problems to get them replaced, because in these guns parts are not interchangeable. One friend even broke the frizzen itself when if fall from his hand when disassembling it.
-Another friend broke the stock of his 1777 around the lock (upper area between lock and tang. It started as a crack and ended in a complete split. He could repair it with glue, screws and pillars. He never fired it with balls, just blanks for reenactment.

When I gave up reenacting I just sold them because I considered that I would better get a better musket to shoot.

About shooting, I can not give you good information, because by then I didn´t know how to make accurate loads with BP.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thank you.
That's not to bad :hatsoff:

B.

 

[Britsmoothy]

UPDATE.
A Ketland arrived and within less than 24hours it is on its way back!
The stock! I chop kindling from better timber!
The frizzen was soft!
The sears are soft and wore away as I tested away!
Piece of junk!

The next choice I have is a 12g Artax Manton copy, flintlock.
Anyone heard of Artax?
It is without a rammer and half stocked, conventional stocked and appears to have a wedding band.
It reminds me of a live pigeon gun!

B.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Never heard of Artax, and couldn't find an actual website, nor on Facebook, but it looks like you have a dealer in Pudsey, West Yorkshire and can see Artax products on his site. The price for that Manton looks reasonable too. Let us know what you think when you actually get hands-on.

Hey since it's Italian and gone through an Italian proofing, does it need UK proofing too or not?

LD

 

[Britsmoothy]

No sir, it won't need re proofing.
That dealer is the one in question that my local dealer is dealing with, :haha: :youcrazy: some of the hoops we suffer! They can not post direct to me! It has to go to a local RFD,registered firearms dealer.

I found an Artax pistol on YouTube earlier, the lock seemed fast!

B.

 

[daoliver924]

If you remove the barrel from the stock, they are stamped on the underside as to who made them.

 

[Britsmoothy]

It was returned bud, I was frightened to remove the barrel, I hate splinters!

B.