Mike Brooks

[packer75]

amen!

 

[rabjr]

I understand it isn't HC and I never said my gun was. I just think it's wrong that some here seem to have Zero tolerance when it comes to our hobby. I for one would much rather see a guy hunt with a jug choked flintlock smoothbore than one of the modern muzzleloaders used for turkey hunting or a modern shotgun. But here he is imediately hit with, "Thats good but it's not exactly HC". Come on, we all determine at what level we want to play this game, some higher than others but to continueally be looked down upon by some because one doesan't particapate at their level is just wrong.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Jug Choking is when ya lift the jug too quick and the 'shine pours down yer throat too dang fast and ya choke, cough, spit, etc.

Making a hole tighter is just magic, and as far as I know magic is ALWAYS HC/PC.

 

[tg]

I do not think it is really a matter of looking down on anyone but a case of asking for some validity when the terms Traditional/PC/HC are tossed around, I personally do not care what someone does, they can put a screw choke in a flint fowler but just do not call it by the above terms, that is all most ask, this is only fair considering there are those who are interested in learning about what and how these guns were used in the past without having to sort out a lot of modern stuff that people toss into the fray as being Traditional or HC/PC, I agree that Swampy did not claim his jug choke was PC/HC and I did not see anyone attack his choice, often folks jump to the defense when there was no personal attack.In this thread someone specificaly asked if the jug choke was HC or PC I do not recall which but the responses to that question are valid and should not be threatening to anyone unless they are running around making inaccurate
claims about the modern stuff, but now it seems anyone with a jug choke is going to take a defensive position which is not required, and it is true we all have a certain level we aspire to but that is irrelevant to the issue of is or isn't something supported by history.This is the same merrygoround we ride with modern sights and bullets,vent liners, 18th century ball boards/shortstarters, use 'em all and enjoy, there really is no question about what is or isn't historical supported just a request for accurate descriptions that really does not sound like it is asking for a lot does it? and I have not heard anyone tell someone they have to do it the PC/HC way but this "threat" is always mentioned as though it was a regular thing done to anyone who is not using 100% HC/PC gear but I have never heard it said myself.

 

[BillinOregon]

Swampy: I don't think anyone meant to stomp on your toes. Tg is just mentioning that jug choking came along long after the flint era had passed, and it would have been a wonderment to a flint shooter in the day.
I'm so sorry folks take umbrage when someone simply mentions that, "of course, they didn't actually have this in 1789 (or fill in your date)."
We are all free to make our own rules.
I for one will never give up aspirin, smallpox vaccinations (dates me doesn't it!) or my 4X4 truck.
To everyone here, we are all drawn together by the common thread of our respect for muzzleloaders. Let's not focus on what divides us, but by what unites us!
:v

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think the Tula choke goes back to about he 1870's also. I'd have to dig around more on that.

 

[rabjr]

Oh please, I knew a long time ago jug choking wasn't HC. I didn't just find out my gun wasn't HC. The question was asked and it was answered. I just can't see why some need to get their blood pressure up because of what someone else chose to do with their gun. Especially something so trivial as this which cannot be seen and no one would ever know unless told.

 

[fyrfyter43]

And on the other side of that coin are the folks that care nothing about the fact that some of us are interested in doing things as HC as possible.

For example, when I asked about a HC sight for my fowler (and mentioned that I would rather not have one, but was only considering it to comply with NJ law), I was told that I was unethical for preferring to not have a rear sight.

 

[Dave K]

Fyrfyter 43, IMO,so many people want it both ways and no, I am not referring to you at all. Because I do understand what you are saying, I think. People here have an intolerance of inlines, as I do, then they will do all they can to hide the modern things they have done to their guns. I don't care either what they do, it is their gun. But if someone asks about PC or HC, then the answer they should get, should be what they asked for, what is PC or HC.

 

[himem777]

Ok I was talking about plate Tectonics. :grin: Sorry Swampy It was me that asked the question, and I realy dident know about Jug choke's HC. I dont think that anyone (including me) would think you (or anyone) any less a BP guy if you used this. I was not intending to start a heated debate. I already did that once this mounth, look up long vs short, that subject will have people looking down their noses at you :grin: {it even got one guy kicked out :shocked2: } never again! Giving your self an edge, and your game a clean kill seems like a good way to go.

Now to throw more fuel on the fire....I have seen an inline flint lock from around the 1700s.:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Sorry could not resist...serously lets not fight over that... :rotf: :rotf:

 

[rabjr]

Well been a rough couple days here and one shouldn't post when pain levels are that high. I saw a comment that rubbed me the wrong way and I posted when I probably shoulfdn't have but it is what it is. :v

 

[tg]

"I just can't see why some need to get their blood pressure up because of what someone else chose to do with their gun"

I guess I missed the high blood pressure thing, I personaly was just trying to put the use of some terms in perspective according to the historical basis they are built upon and suggest that the usage be as accurate as one can be to avoid confusion and missinformation, I do not look down on anyone who uses modern stuff,the jug choke issue had some good threads here on the history of the practice which is another good reason to explore the terms applied to things when the questions come up, I did not see any personal attacks here as is the case quite often when the battles start but the attacks soon begin after some differences of opinions arise,or defensive positions are taken when no attack has been made,it is always best to stick with just facts/information/theories and try to leave out any personal predujices/preferenes unless a thread asking for such is started and then the fur and feathers will likley fly no matter how carefull people are.I think that at times some folks read to much into a statement made by someone else particularly when they have one of the items/things/practices that are/is being reviewed from a historical perspective, it may be viewed as an attack when in reality it was not and sometimes a pre-emptive strike is made by one side or the other if they feel something is heading their way I have used several items that are not really PC/HC and have no problem or embarrasment using them and or telling folks I use them, in fact I often bring it up if met on the trail walk or in the woods with questions about my gear so I can leave a person with the truth as best I can, I do not want someone copying something I use because they think it is cool and "correct" for the 1760's when in fact it is not...."correct" that is,all my stuff is cool, :grin: ...anyway, back to your regular programming, this goverment test of the internet brodcasting system is over.. :v

 

[himem777]

:wink:

 

[cgg]

Swampy, please relax. I am sorry what I said made you mad. I did not mean any offense to anyone. I said it's "OK" to jug choke if you want, and I meant it. Go for it--I hope you have a great time and enjoy your new smoothbore. But the question was asked if jug choking was done in the 18th century/flintlock era and it was not. Jug choking is a "modern" invention. I'll stand by what I said.

I have a 20 bore fowler with no choke and I don't use it for turkeys. I have not come up with a good enough load yet and this spring I am going to have only two or three days to hunt so I am taking my Beretta 3" auto with Hevy Shot to my friend's farm in Iowa. Hell I don't think that's even 20th century HC!

Hopefully in a few years I will have more time to hunt and pick my shots and the 20 bore fowler will get out.

Have fun--kill a big gobbler.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Ok Its not HC, but it cant be detected unless there is a close visual inspection. So the gun would Look right, even if it was tectonically not.

Absolutely so, just don't kid yourself or others that you are taking a turkey the way the pilgrims did it since you will have nearly double the killing range. Besides, we all know they used trumpet muzzled blunderbusses. :haha:

 

[himem777]

Funny :rotf:

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Ok Its not HC, but it cant be detected unless there is a close visual inspection. So the gun would Look right, even if it was tectonically not.

Absolutely so, just don't kid yourself or others that you are taking a turkey the way the pilgrims did it since you will have nearly double the killing range. Besides, we all know they used trumpet muzzled blunderbusses. :haha:

I refuse to wear a buckle on my hat when hunting, historically correct or not.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

the buckle is OK if you are hunting on your way to and from church, that's well documented. :haha:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Ok Its not HC, but it cant be detected unless there is a close visual inspection. So the gun would Look right, even if it was tectonically not.

Absolutely so, just don't kid yourself or others that you are taking a turkey the way the pilgrims did it since you will have nearly double the killing range. Besides, we all know they used trumpet muzzled blunderbusses. :haha:

They were also hunting unpressured animals that would let them come into primitive weapon range.
Like the muley does feeding around my shooting range.
hell I could hit them with an unchoked smoothbore.
Now a days it's getting harder and harder to call pressured turkies into 15 yrds.
:shake:

 

[Wayne/Al]

Greenmtnboy,

Thats one point thats not taken into account when we talk about doing it like the old folks did it.

I read somewhere (forgot where)about men traveling in a flat boat seeing some turkeys on the shore and they went in and killed a few for food. Try that today and by the time you could get to the shore those birds would be in the next county. At least thats the way they act in this part of Bama.

Also read about David Crockett killing 7 buck deer in one afternoon.

Dont seem like a level playing field to me but I'm not complaining just makeing an observation....HA :bow: