Military Heritage India-made Fusil de Chasse

[Comfortably_Numb]

Up next live firing antique Damascus barrels. . .

I'm all in!

 

[tenngun]

Chances are it's an antique gun and is well built and will hold it's value.

Can you find a shootable 66 or 63 charley? If you did how much would you endanger the value by regular use?
Trek with it
Shoot it at events
Hunt with it
A shootable Charley would have some value for sure. Lots more than an Indian or a perdisoli. Probably more than a bench copy.
But
An iron barrel, even as it rolled off the makers bench two hundred and fifty years ago isn’t going to be as strong as an Indian barrel
The lock will not work any better
The fit may be better but I doubt as much as one may think.
Walnut from two centuries ago would have killer value today if you could find it.
Would you have a better gun?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Can you find a shootable 66 or 63 charley? If you did how much would you endanger the value by regular use?
Trek with it
Shoot it at events
Hunt with it
A shootable Charley would have some value for sure. Lots more than an Indian or a perdisoli. Probably more than a bench copy.
But
An iron barrel, even as it rolled off the makers bench two hundred and fifty years ago isn’t going to be as strong as an Indian barrel
The lock will not work any better
The fit may be better but I doubt as much as one may think.
Walnut from two centuries ago would have killer value today if you could find it.
Would you have a better gun?

Saw several for sale a month ago. I don't know how much they went for. I don't "trek". I don't shoot at "events" so that's irrelevant for me.
The lock would work better. And, you wouldn't have to squint at it just right to tell what it is because it wouldn't look like a cartoon representation.
Would I have a better gun? Yes, of course. It will always retain its value as an antique.
Same reason I buy 100 year old Winchesters and Marlins instead of the new made stuff, hands down better quality and they only go up in value, not immediately down.

 

[tenngun]

Saw several for sale a month ago. I don't know how much they went for. I don't "trek". I don't shoot at "events" so that's irrelevant for me.
The lock would work better. And, you wouldn't have to squint at it just right to tell what it is because it wouldn't look like a cartoon representation.
Would I have a better gun? Yes, of course. It will always retain its value as an antique.
Same reason I buy 100 year old Winchesters and Marlins instead of the new made stuff, hands down better quality and they only go up in value, not immediately down.

How does the lock work better?
My Indian is smooth, low trigger pull and sparks to beat tge band.
11 bang bang channel got over two thousand shots with his Indian lock
I doubt I will fire a gun two thousand times on his charley
I honestly doubt their metallurgy was better than todays.
We have a romance about old guns, they were skilled, but it was primitive smithing.
Military arms wernt Durs Eggs’

 

[BadDaditood]

Any 200 year old lock works better than the one I got from India

 

[tenngun]

Any 200 year old lock works better than the one I got from India

How, please explain

 

[FlinterNick]

I wouldn't have even one of YOUR rifles if someone else paid for it.



Peeing in people's breakfast cereal is an Olympic sport for some people, especially the ones who have no real experience with guns they wouldn't take if someone gave them.


I watched several 11BangBang episodes based on Ethan's MH Charleville and Bess. He actually shot the Charleville enough (about 2500 rounds) to wear out the case on the frizzen. He then used Cherry Red and a propane torch to re-case it and put it back into service and it sparked better than ever.

So the lessons are that MH guns work and work for a reasonably long period of time, and that expedient case hardening products do work, at least for a while. These are two things commonly spit on by "the experts". Common knowledge with India guns is strip the finish, reshape the stocks, defarb as needed/desired, refinish, replace the rammers, and thoroughly polish, clean, and oil/grease all the working parts.

I often get locks in my shop for Indian made guns, i always work on those for my reenactment group as favors, but am still attempting to keep the work to a minimums before i starting getting into rebuilding them. Polishing the locks and case hardening parts helps a lot, however it has its limitations due to the poor geometry of the locks.

I do draw the line on complete defarbs and lock replacements, time is an incredible expense and those projects are simply sunk costs to myself and the owner.

 

[FlinterNick]

People complain about India made firearms, but are willing to shoot a200 year old one with a hammer forged wrought iron barrel!

Well to start, a 200 year old iron barrel was probably made to a higher standard than an Indian made barrel is today, not to mention they were appropriately breeched and tapered.

While you can still shoot an Indian made gun, i simply prefer not to.

 

[FlinterNick]

Can you find a shootable 66 or 63 charley? If you did how much would you endanger the value by regular use?
Trek with it
Shoot it at events
Hunt with it
A shootable Charley would have some value for sure. Lots more than an Indian or a perdisoli. Probably more than a bench copy.
But
An iron barrel, even as it rolled off the makers bench two hundred and fifty years ago isn’t going to be as strong as an Indian barrel
The lock will not work any better
The fit may be better but I doubt as much as one may think.
Walnut from two centuries ago would have killer value today if you could find it.
Would you have a better gun?

‘Well the answer is yes and no.

I have original barrels serviced, reamed and lined and they are very shootable. Sometimes all you have to do is ream them out.

1763 barrels, depends. Most were very heavy barrels and have a lot of beef on them. I have an original 1763 barrel, that is in very good shootable condition, i do intend to line it.

1766’s saw a lot of use, most are not usable.

1777 year nine muskets are often in very good condition, just like a third model bess often are too.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Have any of you guys seen the pictures of how these indian guns are made? Guys sitting on a dirt floor filing out parts holding them with their feet. Barrels are made of hydraulic tubing sourced from who knows where.
AND, the guns aren't stocked in teak as everyone says. Google teak and find out about it. this stock wood definitely isn't teak.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Have any of you guys seen the pictures of how these indian guns are made? Guys sitting on a dirt floor filing out parts holding them with their feet. Barrels are made of hydraulic tubing sourced from who knows where.
AND, the guns aren't stocked in teak as everyone says. Google teak and find out about it. this stock wood definitely isn't teak.

Did you know suppliers have had their imports shipped to countries requiring proofing and there have been no failures? Did you know domestic barrels are not proofed?

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

Some years ago I was looking for a 1728 fusil and the only place to get them was either the Rifle Shoppe or one of the India gun sellers. I went to Crown Point with money in hand to buy one of the India-made ones. The seller had only one left and it was just too bad to buy, so I went home and ordered the parts from the Rifle Shoppe. The next year I got to Ticonderoga early and visited the same seller. This time had had about 8 of the 1728s for sale. Two were well done and if he had had them the year before I would have bought one. The rest he had varied from average to unacceptable. the only way to buy an India-made gun is to examine it in person and have a number to choose from. I have never been sorry I went with the Rifle Shoppe gun.

 

[springfield art]

I think this viewpoint may have surfaced in this mile-long thread but I'll put it out there again. Some of us cannot afford the upper priced muskets; those India-made firearms are the only ones in our price range. And the response to that is usually " save up, even if it takes time". That solution just doesn't fit in some of our financial circumstances. If it took me two years to squirrel enough away to afford one of the higher priced options I still couldn't spend that amount on myself. We aren't poor but we surely aren't well-to-do either. Spending that amount on a gun just won't happen while we buy store brand instead of name brand, ask our health care providers if there's a less expensive prescription medication to treat health issues and in general work to figure ways to make it on fixed incomes. Not seeking pity here, just putting it out there. And I'm sure there are others in similar circumstances. If you can buy the pricer options I'm glad for you. Some of us just cannot justify those expenditures.

I see your point. I was fortunate enough to subscribe to all the magazines, buy this, buy that, but many are not so lucky. The Pedersolis are now at the two grand point; I recall when they were 8 or 9 hundred, but back then with dollar inflation, they were expensive, too. Just enjoy your hobby as you are able.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I have never been sorry I went with the Rifle Shoppe gun.

FYI TRS is no longer offering assembled locks. So there is significantly more skill required to assemble one of their kits than a typical kit with a built lock.

 

[FlinterNick]

Have any of you guys seen the pictures of how these indian guns are made? Guys sitting on a dirt floor filing out parts holding them with their feet. Barrels are made of hydraulic tubing sourced from who knows where.
AND, the guns aren't stocked in teak as everyone says. Google teak and find out about it. this stock wood definitely isn't teak.

It’s teak variant not high end stuff

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

It’s teak variant not high end stuff

Similar to boxelder. Soft and porous.
This Indian "teak" certainly isn't the same stuff that boats are made from.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Did you know suppliers have had their imports shipped to countries requiring proofing and there have been no failures? Did you know domestic barrels are not proofed?

Don't care.

 

[FlinterNick]

Similar to boxelder. Soft and porous.
This Indian "teak" certainly isn't the same stuff that boats are made from.

Personally I think it’s old teak, pulled from decks, barns etc I’ve worked on many and they often have rot and worm holes. India is well known as the recycling capital of the world.

 

[FlinterNick]

Did you know suppliers have had their imports shipped to countries requiring proofing and there have been no failures? Did you know domestic barrels are not proofed?

Did you know American barrels are shipped all over the world and proofed … snafu

The barrels may proof however they don’t withstand the test of time and use.

 

[Zapadach]

Saw several for sale a month ago. I don't know how much they went for. I don't "trek". I don't shoot at "events" so that's irrelevant for me.
The lock would work better. And, you wouldn't have to squint at it just right to tell what it is because it wouldn't look like a cartoon representation.
Would I have a better gun? Yes, of course. It will always retain its value as an antique.
Same reason I buy 100 year old Winchesters and Marlins instead of the new made stuff, hands down better quality and they only go up in value, not immediately down.

A one hundred year old gun made in 1923 is a far cry from a bench rolled barrel from two hundred and fifty years ago. I would not shoot such a gun, not only for fear of jeopardizing it's value but for fear of a catastrophic failure. However I would shoot a 1923 Marlin, Colt, Smith and Wesson, whatever all day long. In fact I have shot a original 1873 trapdoor Springfield all day long and felt completely safe.