military musket velocity?

[Rifleman1776]

I am currently reading a historical fiction book "Gone for a Soldier". It is an account of the Revolution from an officers viewpoint. In one scene he is hit in the hip by a "spent" British musket ball. Which caused me to wonder what the velocity of a non-patched, undersized ball from a musket might be and what the range would have to be for it to be "spent" to the point where it would not break skin.
I am guesstimating the velocity at muzzle would about 800 fps. But the "spent" range has me puzzled. Methinks the ball would still be potentially deadly until trajectory takes it into the ground at max range. But, that's just me thinking. :idunno:

 

[hanshi]

When he said "spent", no telling what it went through prior to hitting him. If it passed through a soldier or two I can see that. I'd not want to be hit with one at any range.

 

[pargent]

Round ball looses velocity fairly quickly, it could have been from a longer range, deflected by any number of things or one of the most common reasons being poorly loaded in the first place.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Muzzle velocity is up around 1,100 fps for a Bess. After about 600 yards even a big round ball is failing rapidly. By 750 yards it would hurt like heck and likely break bone but may not get through a wool layer. By 900 yards it is on the ground regardless of elevation.

 

[Matt85]

Muzzle velocity is up around 1,100 fps for a Bess. After about 600 yards even a big round ball is failing rapidly. By 750 yards it would hurt like heck and likely break bone but may not get through a wool layer. By 900 yards it is on the ground regardless of elevation.

1100 fps? that seems kinda fast, i always thought they were in the 700-900 range. did you get that speed from a chrono?

ive always wanted to see how fast the ball is coming outa my 69 cal musket with a traditional unpatched load.

-matt

 

[Rifleman1776]

Muzzle velocity is up around 1,100 fps for a Bess. After about 600 yards even a big round ball is failing rapidly. By 750 yards it would hurt like heck and likely break bone but may not get through a wool layer. By 900 yards it is on the ground regardless of elevation.

1100 fps? that seems kinda fast, i always thought they were in the 700-900 range. did you get that speed from a chrono?

ive always wanted to see how fast the ball is coming outa my 69 cal musket with a traditional unpatched load.

-matt

I agree, that seems kinda fast. Remember, this would be an UN-PATCHED ball.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I never shot unpatched in my muskets I used to own a first model Bess. It's bore was slightly over .770 diameter. I shot a .750 round ball, ten thousands patching and 100 grains of Goex cartridge. It was a very heavy musket and it took 100 grains to plane out the big 750 ball. The recoil was not to bad if you could hold up the musket. It was the only one of my muskets that I ever put on a crony. It ran around 1350 - 1400
Goex Cartridge is a high test 2F.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I never shot unpatched from my Ped. BB. For it I used a patched .731 ball and 50-70 gr. 2Fg.

 

[yakimaman]

We can all shoot tightly patched round balls in our military muskets but what was shot in them originally? An undersized ball partially patched by whatever was left of the paper cartridge. Has anyone chronographed one that was loaded as they were in battle?

 

[Jim Blair]

Very early tests at the Washington Arsenal circa 1840s,they didn't have adequate equipment before then,had the following results using the U.S.flint .69 caliber musket-

"With the regulation flint musket charge of 130 grains(including 10 of priming) and with a 0.64-inch ball of 397.5 grains (18/lb) a velocity of 1449 fps was obtained."

In a test of the .69 caliber percussion musket the following was noted-

"The drop of this ball was 7.7 inches at 80 yards,23 at 120,and 32 at 150."

It was also noted that an increase of .01 inch in ball size,windage as they termed it,was equivalent to an increase of 10 grains in the powder charge.The tests results in a .69 caliber musket were-

130 grain powder charge(ten allowed for priming so 120) using a 0.65 inch ball of 397.5 grains gave a velocity of 1449 FPS.

110 grain charge using a 0.65 ball of 411.5 grains gave a velocity of 1508 FPS.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Muzzle velocity is up around 1,100 fps for a Bess. After about 600 yards even a big round ball is failing rapidly. By 750 yards it would hurt like heck and likely break bone but may not get through a wool layer. By 900 yards it is on the ground regardless of elevation.

1100 fps? that seems kinda fast, i always thought they were in the 700-900 range. did you get that speed from a chrono?

ive always wanted to see how fast the ball is coming outa my 69 cal musket with a traditional unpatched load.

-matt

They didn't shoot bare ball. It would have been paper patched (and likely a relatively cruddy bore after the first shot).

 

[buzz]

In my bess shooting unpatched ball make i unique sound and dstill can hit a man size target at 50 yards 9 out of 10 times

 

[Wes/Tex]

Lyman once did a test with a .735" ball with 100 grains of FFg and got 1000 fps at the muzzle but only 565 fps at 300 yards. The drop at that range was a mere 20.5 feet! Better aim high!!

 

[Rifleman1776]

They didn't shoot bare ball. It would have been paper patched (and likely a relatively cruddy bore after the first shot).

The book I was reading, a very good historical novel, said that in close quarters fighting the ballw was often just dropped down the bore over the charge for faster loading. I have read references to that technique many times in the past also.
Oh,well. The hero lived through this event. :grin:

 

[palladius]

It was quite common for officers not far behind the line to get hit by spent balls. I can think of accounts of Wellington, Napoleon and Ney all being hit by spent balls and receiving minor injuries that didn't take them out of action. Sometimes the spent ball resulted in bruising, possibly a broken bone. How far would the person be from the shot? Hard to say. If it richoted off the ground he could be closer than hit by direct fire but how far? One time when Wellington was hit in the knee he was almost captured so he couldn't have been too far. Napoleon was close at Ratisbon, within a few hundred yards of the fighting, as I recall.

 

[colmoultrie]

Of course, spent can also mean "went through someone else without hitting bone."
:hmm:
Doubt anyone checked to see if the spent ball was still round.

:hatsoff:

 

[George]

II am guesstimating the velocity at muzzle would about 800 fps.

The famous British scientist Benjamin Robins who did such good early work on ballistics and in fact invented the first way to measure bullet velocities, has some very interesting figures in his book, _New Principles of Gunnery_, 1742. In it he has this section:

Prop IV. To determine the velocities with which musket and cannon-shot are discharged from their respective pieces by their usual allotment of powder.

He doesn't identify the musket except to say it has a bore of 3/4" and a barrel length of 45", and that the ball it fires weighs 1/12 pound, fired with 1/24 pound of powder. The velocity he got in that experiment was 1700 fps.

The powder charge which he identifies as the "usual allotment" is 291 grains, if his pound then was the same avoirdupois pound as now.

He was working with the British military, so it's not unreasonable to think the musket might have been a Bess, I guess.

Reading about the work he did is a real eye-opener as to the scientific understanding they had in the early 18th century.

Spence

 

[Rifleman1776]

II am guesstimating the velocity at muzzle would about 800 fps.

The famous British scientist Benjamin Robins who did such good early work on ballistics and in fact invented the first way to measure bullet velocities, has some very interesting figures in his book, _New Principles of Gunnery_, 1742. In it he has this section:

Prop IV. To determine the velocities with which musket and cannon-shot are discharged from their respective pieces by their usual allotment of powder.

He doesn't identify the musket except to say it has a bore of 3/4" and a barrel length of 45", and that the ball it fires weighs 1/12 pound, fired with 1/24 pound of powder. The velocity he got in that experiment was 1700 fps.

The powder charge which he identifies as the "usual allotment" is 291 grains, if his pound then was the same avoirdupois pound as now.

He was working with the British military, so it's not unreasonable to think the musket might have been a Bess, I guess.

Reading about the work he did is a real eye-opener as to the scientific understanding they had in the early 18th century.

Spence

I'm kinda skeeptikal that was an accurate finding. 1700 fps is pretty screaming for a patched round ball from a rifle. For an unpatched (loose fitting) ball from a smoothie musket.... :shake: not likely IMHO.

 

[Dphar]

Load one with 160 gr of powder in a paper cartridge and see what it clocks.
The US Army used 167 gr in cartridges into the early 19th c. figure 5-10 gr for prime.
Modern powder like Swiss 130-140 would be about right. I40 in my 30" barreled rifle with a .662 ball is about 1600.
Large bore are more efficient.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

I never shot unpatched in my muskets I used to own a first model Bess. It's bore was slightly over .770 diameter. I shot a .750 round ball, ten thousands patching and 100 grains of Goex cartridge. It was a very heavy musket and it took 100 grains to plane out the big 750 ball. The recoil was not to bad if you could hold up the musket. It was the only one of my muskets that I ever put on a crony. It ran around 1350 - 1400
Goex Cartridge is a high test 2F.

Actually Cartridge is FF with lipstick.

Dan