Minié ball in a smoothbore

[Britsmoothy]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/294186/

 

[Rifleman1776]

It will come out but tumble, be very inaccurate and if it does hit something probably deadly. If hunting, you will kill a lot of trees.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Plenty of deer have fallen from a shotgun slug, long before the rifled deer barrel appeared on the market. Some of these old time slugs were said to be “rifled” because they had spiral ridges on the outside. These ridges mostly helped the slug body compress was it passed through the shotgun choke.

A true mini-ball of Civil War fame was a hollow based bullet shaped projectile, it was easy to load, and the hollow base would expand in to the rifling. I believe in modern parlance, any projectile that expands into the rifling is referred to a “mini”.

As for safety you would have to compare it to what your normal shot load is. I shoot 1 oz. of shot in my 20 ga. over 65 grains of 2F powder. The 1 oz. of shot weights 438 grains, so if I had a 438 grain slug I would be willing to substitute it. However, I am talking about a sound modern steel barrel. You have to be the judge of that. I have deep respect for the fine and even not so fine old original shot guns and prefer use them with their intended to shot load only.

One of the problems that concerns me when tinkering with such things is “How do I make sure the projectile stays up against the powder in the field?”

You will of course not get rifle accuracy but locally, most deer are shot at 20 to 25 yards from a tree stand.

 

[satx78247]

Btw, I wonder if any of the "minie balls are inaccurate out of a SB" have EVER even fired ONE from a SB barrel.
(My guess is NOT.)

One of my cousins is a devoted ML hunter AND wanted to hunt on a military ammunition plant's property that allows slugs ONLY for deer. - He discovered that a 12-bore size minie worked fairly well out of a SB out to about 35-40M. = Robby discovered that he could consistently hit a standard size paper plate out to 40M.
(In most of the area that our family hunts you cannot SEE more than 20-40M due to the thick brush/foliage/switch-cane/tall grass.)

yours, satx

 

[54ball]

Not so! The Lyman diablo shaped 20 ga. slug is a .58 caliber bullet that is highly accurate in a smooth bore.

Yes so. The diablo slug has the stabilizing tail. If you note it is shaped like a badminton or a pellet for an air gun.

A conical like a minnie has no such feature as it is designed for a rifled bore.

 

[Auldgoat]

Been there, done that. Of the 10 shots taken, the 12" target had 7 holes - 50 yds. No group. 3 keyholes. .577 minnie. .58 sb patched.

The front of the minnie (or any conical for that matter) slows down due to impact with the air. The tail, having had less impact with the air, is going faster thus passing the front. The base skirt has even more drag and accuracy immediately goes to hell from rotation along the lateral axis. Spin from rifling adds gyroscopic effect and stabilizes the round.

.......imho

Will

 

[satx78247]

OK. Now, PLEASE tell me WHY your thesis doesn't hold water when a person is shooting a SB modern shotgun with slugs.
(Fyi, I've taken numerous WT & hogs with my Model 870 Remington riot-gun & slugs "on post". = MOST military posts don't allow rifles for hunting.)

A lot of modern shotguns group acceptably for deer out to 50+M with slugs & a smoothbore.

I suspect that a person's results with minies out of a ML SB depends to a great degree with picking a "slide fit" minie & experimenting until you find the most accurate amount of BP to mate with the minie.

One thing is certain: Any minie that passes through the K-5 area is DEADLY on virtually any North American game animal.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

That's a good question!
I've experienced the same thing. I always figured it was the choke :idunno:
I do have an H&R slug gun that won't shoot any elongated slug (and it's rifled) homegrown or commercial, but a 69 cal roundball from a brass shell and it practically clover leafs at 50 yards.

But then when I try shotgun slugs out of my muzzleloader the perform terribly compared to round balls. and my 870 loves just about anything I feed it.

 

[54ball]

Because modern shotgun slugs are not minnies. The pumpkin ball is a roundball. Some slugs are so short and stuby they have near the performance of a roundball. Some are rifled with grooves cast in the lead. Still others like the aforementioned diablo are designed to fly straight with a tail similar to a airgun pellet. These are sub bore and use a sabot. None of these are minnies or even rifle projectiles.

 

[satx78247]

The so-called "rifling" cast onto slugs imparts NO spin whatever in any SB barrel, according to tests by Winchester Arms Co.
(It's only there to "swage down" the diameter of the slug to keep it from bulging the bore of choked shotgun barrels.)

Have you ever fired even ONE minie ball of suitable size & a moderate load of BP out of a SB barrel?
(Fyi, my cousin has had GOOD success on WT & hogs with his 12-bore & matched minie/BP loads.)

yours, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

Satx,
I'm not disputing anything or your cousins success.

The so-called "rifling" cast onto slugs imparts NO spin whatever in any SB barrel, according to tests by Winchester Arms Co.
(It's only there to "swage down" the diameter of the slug to keep it from bulging the bore of choked shotgun barrels.)

But, if that purpose is true then why are all rifled slugs helical instead of straight. :hmm:

 

[satx78247]

It IS true, though I cannot say why the grooves couldn't be straight & accomplish the same purpose.

Check out the archives of THE NATIONAL RIFLEMAN MAGAZINE for the actual WRAC test results.
(The NRA librarian will send you a copy, if you cannot find it. = SOME of the back issues aren't "searchable".)

yours, satx

 

[azmntman]

simple marketing for simple minds. I thought they made em spin? Im simple minded though :idunno:

 

[satx78247]

The WRAC tests indicate that the slugs don't spin BUT the article accompanying the test indicates that long ago that it was once "thought to cause some rotation".

Instead slugs (especially the KNOCH ones with a fiber wad attached) fly relatively straight because of "the dart effect".

Addenda: The WRAC test also "shot themselves in the foot", as the test revealed that Winchester slugs, despite their higher cost, were NO more accurate than the "discount brands".

yours, satx

 

[azmntman]

would think the air flow against the "fins" would make em spin? Not til they left the barrel but then maybe?

 

[satx78247]

YEP. That was "the myth" that the tests disproved.
(I used to believe it too & bought the EXPENSIVE German-made slugs. = SILLY me for believing the advertizing!!!)

yours, satx

 

[azmntman]

I dont believe anything till I see it, BUT I do listen and thus dont try a whole lot a things :grin:

When I get the moolah and get my smoothie (hopefully with the girl back on the website) it will be round ball n shot only.

 

[satx78247]

Understood.

Fwiw, I'm "considering" a SxS Cape-gun in 12 bore, with the left barrel rifled.
(It's $$$$$$$ but IF I buy it, it will make the trip next year to the RSA. = I want to take a "spotted devil" with a ML.)

yours, satx

 

[54ball]

The so-called "rifling" cast onto slugs imparts NO spin whatever in any SB barrel, according to tests by Winchester Arms Co.
(It's only there to "swage down" the diameter of the slug to keep it from bulging the bore of choked shotgun barrels.)

Have you ever fired even ONE minie ball of suitable size & a moderate load of BP out of a SB barrel?
(Fyi, my cousin has had GOOD success on WT & hogs with his 12-bore & matched minie/BP loads.)

yours, satx

Nope never have, never had the need or desire. I was just trying to explain why a conical may not be the best round for a smoothbore. The round ball serves all my needs without the.....

I suppose a hand full of jacks would make and excellent load if one developed it.

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: that would be a heck of a load!