Minie sizing issue - help needed

[AndyJ]

Ok...so I got a batch of minie balls in from TOTW last week for my new 50 cal rifled barrel, slugged to 0,496.
So I knew I needed to size em to get them down the barrel...so I made two sizing holes in some 6061 Aluminum
0.25 stock...one was right at 0.500 and the other was 0.492 (12.5 mm bit). So, excitedly, I gave a few minie's a
run through but find that the lube grooves to be gone on most sides....see pic for before and after condition.

So it appears I cant use em due to the lack of lube grooves...can I?
Out of the bag they need sizing but???
Suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Tom

 

[TNGhost]

I am going to guess those are not going to work very well, not necessarily because of the lack of lube grooves, but they are not nearly concentric and that will cause you more inaccuracy than the lack of lube grooves.

Did you try using them as is? Will they fit at all? What do they measure before sizing?

 

[AndyJ]

They are looking to be around 0.503 and they wont go down by hand (dry)...it seems not to be close. I'm afraid of "encouraging" them down for fear of not getting em out in the shop. I'm going to the range tomorrow but confidence levels for using them are waning.
I dont have a real sizing press...just a vice and my homemade die setup...so I may need to bite the bullet and make the investment, sadly.

 

[Newly O’Brian]

Definitely need a longer die, tapered transition, sizing lube and coaxial force.

 

[TNGhost]

They are looking to be around 0.503 and they wont go down by hand (dry)...it seems not to be close. I'm afraid of "encouraging" them down for fear of not getting em out in the shop. I'm going to the range tomorrow but confidence levels for using them are waning.
I dont have a real sizing press...just a vice and my homemade die setup...so I may need to bite the bullet and make the investment, sadly.

Before I did that I would look around and try to find a smaller diameter Minie or a mold making smaller diameter ones.'

You could check Lee they have sizing kits for around $25 but they jump from .460 to 501 https://leeprecision.com/classic-bullet-sizing-kit

They do offer custom dies etc. and their custom sizing dies are $50 https://leeprecision.com/custom-classic-bullet-sizing-kit

Look around and you may find someone who makes Minies in the diameter you want too. Maybe post a wanted post in the sale trade wanted section of the forum.

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks for the suggestions...will look into both areas.

 

[SDSmlf]

Ok...so I got a batch of minie balls in from TOTW last week for my new 50 cal rifled barrel, slugged to 0,496.
So I knew I needed to size em to get them down the barrel...so I made two sizing holes in some 6061 Aluminum
0.25 stock...one was right at 0.500 and the other was 0.492 (12.5 mm bit). So, excitedly, I gave a few minie's a
run through but find that the lube grooves to be gone on most sides....see pic for before and after condition.
View attachment 338728View attachment 338733View attachment 338735
So it appears I cant use em due to the lack of lube grooves...can I?
Out of the bag they need sizing but???
Suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Tom

How are you supporting and guiding the Minies through those holes? And how are you pushing them through?

As far as the minies, what size are they as received from TOTW?

 

[AndyJ]

So it looks like I made a number of mistakes....

• no lube - thought the hardness difference would suffice
• too thin a die for the length of bullet - thought the bullet would self orient as its pushed through
• incorrect, or none, pushing base - flat vice face would deform the lowest skirt, a rod used inside the hollow base might be better but still would not prevent undesired deformation

After some thought think I'll:

• triple the thickness of the die whilst adding some narrowing to it
• carve a hardwood dowel to match the hollow base contour for a pusher surface
• well lube the bullets prior to the next try

Couple other thoughts:

• I know the minie's weren't originally designed for 50cal but after a hundred years or so I thought it would be developed - difficult to find dies around that size...plenty in the 45cal range though
• maybe hollow base isnt the path ahead for my efforts

Thanks for all the comments.
Tom

 

[AndyJ]

Ok...quick update on progress...I redid my die...now its 0.75" thick with the top most 1/4" at 0.500 and the next two layers go to 0.492". I also lubed each ball well prior to pushing through with a small hardwood dowel. Here is how they turned out.

The top minie is the one purchased...the other 4 were made with the die shown.
So I took em out today to give them a try and I can say they shoot very different from the 0.495 round
balls I'm using. Was trying to hit plates at 100 yds and failed miserably with the RB then popped a
few minie's in they went so much higher that it was pointless to continue without properly sighting
in the gun. They did go down the barrel very nicely...just a couple taps with the rod and poof.
Think I have to learn to stand first (shooting RB accurately) before running (minie's).
Thanks again for all the helpful comments...greatly appreciated.
Tom

 

[gemmer]

.011 is too much take off a minie. My suggestion is to find the right size mould and buy a properly tapered sizing die from John at Northeast trade Co. 570-564-2061. www.notheasttradeco.com. He'll make any size you want. BTW, serious shooters of arms using minies consider store bought ones a waste of money, quality wise.

 

[AndyJ]

Is it unrealistic to expect good accuracy with minie's out of a 1:56" barrel?
(I know...define "good")

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I can't speak to shooting a Minie out of a .50 caliber as I only shoot the Hornady Pa. Conical out of my .50 Cal. I wipe off all that excess lube first and my GM 1-70 twist gives great accuracy over 100gr FF.

Now, I shoot a Minie out of my .54 Caliber GM 1-70 twist barrel. I lube the Minie with SPG Lube. Now I can't recall the exact diameter of the .54 Minie but I know if I don't flare the hollow base with a Lee Universal expander die the Minie's will drop straight down the barrel. That's OK for target, but no for hunting. So the slight flair keeps the Minie where I want it.

Here's a 5 shot group, .54 Minie, 100 yards, 100gr FF (and yes, that has recoil!) off a bench of course.

 

[TNGhost]

Ok...quick update on progress...I redid my die...now its 0.75" thick with the top most 1/4" at 0.500 and the next two layers go to 0.492". I also lubed each ball well prior to pushing through with a small hardwood dowel. Here is how they turned out.
View attachment 339189View attachment 339190

The top minie is the one purchased...the other 4 were made with the die shown.
So I took em out today to give them a try and I can say they shoot very different from the 0.495 round
balls I'm using. Was trying to hit plates at 100 yds and failed miserably with the RB then popped a
few minie's in they went so much higher that it was pointless to continue without properly sighting
in the gun. They did go down the barrel very nicely...just a couple taps with the rod and poof.
Think I have to learn to stand first (shooting RB accurately) before running (minie's).
Thanks again for all the helpful comments...greatly appreciated.
Tom

They look much better, and it's a matter of if they have enough room for lube, and that you can tell by how soft the fouling is and if there is any leading. The proof is going to be in whether they shoot well or not. If they do, then nothing else matters.

Remember that the reason for the existence of the Minie is to allow soldiers a projectile that was easy to load, didn't require a patch or engraving the rifling at loading. They are designed primarily to go down really easy, to facilitate rate of fire. The skirt being there to provide that loading ease while maintaining acceptable accuracy. Nominally they are going to be .001 to .002 below bore size.

This thread may interest you:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/sizing-minie-balls.128183/

 

[gemmer]

Is it unrealistic to expect good accuracy with minie's out of a 1:56" barrel?
(I know...define "good")

No. But, groove depth is a factor. Deep grooves for patched round ball often give less than satisfactory results, but not always.

 

[TNGhost]

No. But, groove depth is a factor. Deep grooves for patched round ball often give less than satisfactory results, but not always.

The longer the projectile the faster the twist rate needs to be to stabilize it properly.