1General_Grant
40 Cal
I don't have any gun grease, I'll run out tomorrow and buy some.
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Miroku 1766 Charleville having Hammer/Frizzen Problems
- Thread starter 1General_Grant
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No, not anymore. See previous post.
Well, anything greasy works. Vaseline would be OK if you have some.
1General_Grant
40 Cal
I'll go find out if I got any of that.Well, anything greasy works. Vaseline would be OK if you have some.
Are you guy that bought that NIB Charleville that was for sale back in April?
1General_Grant
40 Cal
I got gun oil would that work alright?
Move the flint as close as you can to the frizzen with the gun at half cock.
1General_Grant
40 Cal
I'll give it a try
1General_Grant
40 Cal
Alright, that didn't work, I'll get some gun grease.
How far away was the flint from the frizzen with the gun at half cock? I prefer about 1/16” clearance. Also, did you flip the flint so it was bevel down and striking the frizzen higher?
1General_Grant
40 Cal
I moved it pretty close and tried the flint facing both ways.
And pretty close is? In your before photograph is hard to tell, but appears you have 3/16” to 1/4” between frizzen and flint (see red arrows in photo below). Have you gotten it to 1/16” or less? It can make a big difference with some locks. You may need a longer flint or have to place something behind the flint to move it forward. Also, I’m not sure how well the piece of cloth will hold the flint in place. Do you find the flint moving back when you fire the lock? Most folks find a piece of leather works pretty good.
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If it's firing reliable what's the issue?
ChuckJonesWagon
40 Cal
Just my $0.02 on the matter, and I can't tell from your photos, but is the frizzen (by chance) just slightly rubbing against the barrel when it is opening? Look at your barrel and see if you have any rub or scrape marks on it. Even a very slight contact will cause the frizzen to not fully open.
If you take the lock out of the rifle and cock\fire it in your had does the frizzen fully open? If it does, and does so consistently, then your frizzen is rubbing against something. (Or possibly your mainspring is binding against something causing less power to the hammer).
Humidity can do things to your stock, causing even a minor swelling and pushing your lock to wood tolerances to cause binding.
Also, remove the frizzen spring and look at where the frizzen foot contacts the spring. Do you now have a gouge in the spring and\or frizzen foot? If so, polish both the spring and frizzen foot to remove the gouge. Don't start with any sandpaper rougher than 400 grit and go up to 600 grit at a minimum. Don't change the contour of the frizzen foot. (Again....if there are gouge marks on either part)
If you take the lock out of the rifle and cock\fire it in your had does the frizzen fully open? If it does, and does so consistently, then your frizzen is rubbing against something. (Or possibly your mainspring is binding against something causing less power to the hammer).
Humidity can do things to your stock, causing even a minor swelling and pushing your lock to wood tolerances to cause binding.
Also, remove the frizzen spring and look at where the frizzen foot contacts the spring. Do you now have a gouge in the spring and\or frizzen foot? If so, polish both the spring and frizzen foot to remove the gouge. Don't start with any sandpaper rougher than 400 grit and go up to 600 grit at a minimum. Don't change the contour of the frizzen foot. (Again....if there are gouge marks on either part)
Great troubleshooting steps. Always look for possible sources of excess friction and how to eliminate them. Don't know about gouge marks in the frizzen spring though; isn't spring steel harder than the frizzen steel?
All in all this is turning into a great thread on firearm functional issue troubleshooting.
ChuckJonesWagon
40 Cal
Im currently tuning a lock for a future pistol build. I was having the same issue with the lock (frizzen not opening completely, gouging of spring and frizzen foot) and it's not even in a firearm yet. I've polished the spring and foot to 1500 grit sandpaper, applied a tiny dab of grease, and that has solved the issue.
I have 4 other flintlocks that don't require grease on the frizzen foot and they work fine. I'm sure there's a reason.....but if the dab of grease works, I'm good with that.
Must be that soft Italian or Spanish steel.
ChuckJonesWagon
40 Cal
Funny you should mention that. The lock is a 4-1/4" long (perfect for pistol) that was marketed by Dixie Gun Works back in the day. It has both Dixie Gun Works and (you'll like this) Italy stamped on the inside of the lock plate.Must be that soft Italian or Spanish steel.
The spring tension (frizzen spring) allows it to open at just a tad over 3-lbs which is great. I've polished the foot, shaped it to "spread" the force across the entire foot to spring contact point, but without grease after maybe ten to fifteen "firings" the gouge will come back.
The lock is of good quality (Not a Chambers nor a Kibler) but I picked it up for half the price of any lock you can buy today. Should the issue continue I'll replace the frizzen spring....but time will tell.
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Dont’ use grease, grease will make the parts stick.
Disassemble the lock, clean it will with some dawn and a scrub pad.
Once clean wipe it down with some alcohol to remove any remaining residue.
Check the frizzen foot for burrs, you can rube a paper towel over the parts, when the towel catches that’s a bur, polish out the burrs with some 220 grit paper, you may even want to rub the frizzen foot on some 220 paper a few times (not aggressively).
Once you’ve cleaned up the frizzen check the frizzen spring upper leaf, check the wear on it (carefully Charleville frizzen springs will break if compressed too tightly). You can polish the top of the leaf spring with some 220 paper.
Check the pan bridles, and plate, make sure the area’s are not damaged or have any burrs, repeat the polishing.
Lastly check the screw for straightness, and check the health of the threads if they look mangled then there’s a thread issue in the plate and or screw, you’ll need some help with that.
If the screw is bent then the bridle and plate screw hole are off alignment (this is not likely with your lock, but not improbable).
Wipe off any residue from polishing with alcohol, reassemble, lubricate with light machine oil (NO GREASE !) Grease will slow the lock down, you can use machining oil, tap oil, CLP any, you can even use transmission fluid or motor oil. My personal fav are those foredom oil pens on amazon.
If all fails then you’ll need someone to inspect the lock for appropriate tuning, it’s possible your spring is too strong or the frizzen has lost some of its hardness and the flints are gouging the steel. Again these are not common issues with this lock, as it is the best military musket lock probably in service.
Good Luck
No but I think you need to remove the cloth around the flint and replace it with leather, and consider a proper lead wrap.
You may add grease to where the cam on the frizzen engages the upper surface of the frizzen spring, but you might also look hard at that cam and the upper surface of that frizzen spring, and simply polish both surfaces. Quite often the frizzen cam aka toe, the piece that touches the frizzen spring simply needs a tiny bit of polishing as does the upper surface of the spring. So a few drops of oil and some 1000 grit emery paper often frees-up a frizzen.
LD
IF it's not cleaned after shooting and collects black powder residue, yes. If it's properly cleaned and regreased, no.
The amount of grease I use between a frizzen shoe and a frizzen spring is less than the amount you can fit on to the pointy tip of a round toothpick. And my entire lock gets removed and cleaned after each shoot.
