Miroku 1766 Charleville having Hammer/Frizzen Problems

[FlinterNick]

First nothing wrong with your lock from what I see. Just bad geometry. From observing you lock in action I would suggest a smaller flint or at least move the flint back a little so it is scraping the flint and not banging into it. Having the same musket for years I know they are very temperamental with flint size. Very easy thing to try with no possibility of messing anything up with your lock. Remember to KISS!.

The lock doesn’t have bad geometry, this Miroku Charleville lock is probably the best flintlock designs ever made on a Reproduction military musket.

 

[springfield art]

My Charleville is a Miroku. They make nice stuff.

 

[wiscoaster]

.....

Many people underestimate the benefits of using waxes on their guns, such as renaissance wax.

I'm a big fan of wax. It's my usual final finish coat on the stock after the tung oil has cured. And I don't know, I'll probably get static, but I even wax steel.

 

[wiscoaster]

....

Maybe I should just send the lock somewhere to be worked on.

You're making progress. It's that old devil, the learning curve. Everybody climbs that curve. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

No it's not rubbing against the barrel.

Frizzen still won't open when fired out of the lock.

What do you mean by "gouge"?

Look at this pic. By "gouge" I mean is there scrape marks on the spring where the frizzen foot contacts it?

The pic below is the lock that I'm currently working on. Now, the pic was taken after I began to sand the frizzen spring with 220 grit. You can still see the gouge in the spring. After the 220 grit I went to 440 grit, then to 1,500 grit to finish it up.

When I say use grease I mean the dab on the end of a toothpick amount. You don't want grease running down your lock so the dab is very tiny. And yes, I (assumed) everyone cleans their lock after shooting it. I do. On this lock I will re-apply a dab of grease to help prevent this from occurring.

I also believe grease can stand up to more pressure than oil can. But you can use whatever works for ya!!

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I think the problem is just the frizzen was too tight.

Ok, not trying to be a PITA, but your above statement says "...the frizzen was too tight."

Are you saying that you loosened up the frizzen screw and it then worked?

 

[1General_Grant]

Ok, not trying to be a PITA, but your above statement says "...the frizzen was too tight."

Are you saying that you loosened up the frizzen screw and it then worked?

I don't have a spring vice so I can't the spring and frizzen back on together so I'm not sure if it would work.

 

[1General_Grant]

Look at this pic. By "gouge" I mean is there scrape marks on the spring where the frizzen foot contacts it?

The pic below is the lock that I'm currently working on. Now, the pic was taken after I began to sand the frizzen spring with 220 grit. You can still see the gouge in the spring. After the 220 grit I went to 440 grit, then to 1,500 grit to finish it up.

When I say use grease I mean the dab on the end of a toothpick amount. You don't want grease running down your lock so the dab is very tiny. And yes, I (assumed) everyone cleans their lock after shooting it. I do. On this lock I will re-apply a dab of grease to help prevent this from occurring.

I also believe grease can stand up to more pressure than oil can. But you can use whatever works for ya!!

Yes there is some scrape marks there.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I'll send another




Frizzen is barely opening probably wouldn't go off. See video below

Plenty sparks enter the pan.

 

[1General_Grant]

Plenty sparks enter the pan.

I'd rather have it function anyway.

 

[FlinterNick]

Look at this pic. By "gouge" I mean is there scrape marks on the spring where the frizzen foot contacts it?

The pic below is the lock that I'm currently working on. Now, the pic was taken after I began to sand the frizzen spring with 220 grit. You can still see the gouge in the spring. After the 220 grit I went to 440 grit, then to 1,500 grit to finish it up.

When I say use grease I mean the dab on the end of a toothpick amount. You don't want grease running down your lock so the dab is very tiny. And yes, I (assumed) everyone cleans their lock after shooting it. I do. On this lock I will re-apply a dab of grease to help prevent this from occurring.

I also believe grease can stand up to more pressure than oil can. But you can use whatever works for ya!!

The scrape marks on the upper leaf spring are normal, I wouldn’t remove those as removing too much steel will weaken it and require a retempering if it gets overheated or if it needs realignment. They won’t slow down the lock unless the spring isn’t tempered correctly which is doubtful at best.

The frizzen toe should have a highly polished bearing point, grease will not make it work better, the polishing will with lightly applications of gun oil.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ok, not trying to be a PITA, but your above statement says "...the frizzen was too tight."

Are you saying that you loosened up the frizzen screw and it then worked?

The screw should have nothing to do with the frizzen being too tight, it’s a pivot screw, the screw is there to anchor the frizzen to the plate. The frizzen spring’s strength would make the frizzen too tight. The only other thing that would make the frizzen too tight is the fit between the bridle and the plate, it its rough or has file marks on it or burrs it could make it tighter but repeated use would work the area smooth.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

The scrape marks on the upper leaf spring are normal, I wouldn’t remove those as removing too much steel will weaken it and require a retempering if it gets overheated or if it needs realignment. They won’t slow down the lock unless the spring isn’t tempered correctly which is doubtful at best.

The frizzen toe should have a highly polished bearing point, grease will not make it work better, the polishing will with lightly applications of gun oil.

Grease does make it work better. I agree that "scrape marks" are normal. "Gouge marks" however are not. Without oil or grease THIS lock, once the spring and frizzen toe are polished to 1,500 will work about ten times. Then the frizzen will not completely open. Application of a dab of grease prevents the gouging and the lock will keep working no matter how many times it's cycled.

The screw should have nothing to do with the frizzen being too tight, it’s a pivot screw, the screw is there to anchor the frizzen to the plate. The frizzen spring’s strength would make the frizzen too tight. The only other thing that would make the frizzen too tight is the fit between the bridle and the plate, it its rough or has file marks on it or burrs it could make it tighter but repeated use would work the area smooth.

I agree. The screw should have no effect on the frizzen free play. But that's not what his post stated.

Grease vs Oil:
The biggest difference setting grease apart from oil is its thickener. Grease is a thickened oil, not a thicker oil. The thickener within a grease acts as a sponge, holding the base oil and the additives together. This creates a grease's semi-fluid or solid structure, as opposed to the syrup-like consistency of oil.

 

[FlinterNick]

Grease does make it work better. I agree that "scrape marks" are normal. "Gouge marks" however are not. Without oil or grease THIS lock, once the spring and frizzen toe are polished to 1,500 will work about ten times. Then the frizzen will not completely open. Application of a dab of grease prevents the gouging and the lock will keep working no matter how many times it's cycled.

I agree. The screw should have no effect on the frizzen free play. But that's not what his post stated.

Grease vs Oil:
The biggest difference setting grease apart from oil is its thickener. Grease is a thickened oil, not a thicker oil. The thickener within a grease acts as a sponge, holding the base oil and the additives together. This creates a grease's semi-fluid or solid structure, as opposed to the syrup-like consistency of oil.

I never grease my frizzen Springs any guns in 25 years I’ve never had any issues with performance. I oil them before I use them and after cleaning.

I’ve certainly repaired many of them with heavy gun grease though.

Polishing the bearing points up to 1500 … depends on what you mean by that, all 1500 will do Is polish over file marks. Starting at 200 working up to 1500 is overkill. Originals were not even that highly polished, wear and use will break in a moderately polished bearing point that is adequately hardened and tempered

220-320 is more than enough to debur a part that is rough but not much is needed beyond a few strokes with an Emory block

Disagree on the use of grease

 

[Dave Marsh]

If I were you, I would send the lock to Brad Emig and have it tuned. Then you won't need a spring vice or any expertise on fixing a lock or listen to a thousand opinions on everything to do with a flintlock. Ask Brad about leather or lead and what flint you need. My two cents worth. Good luck.

 

[FlinterNick]

If I were you, I would send the lock to Brad Emig and have it tuned. Then you won't need a spring vice or any expertise on fixing a lock or listen to a thousand opinions on everything to do with a flintlock. Ask Brad about leather or lead and what flint you need. My two cents worth. Good luck.

Brad is an excellent choice.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

I have used dry lubes such as powdered Molydbnum. They have really good lubricity and will cling to the surfaces very well. Using this also eliminates the sticky, dirt-attraction of greases.

 

[SDSmlf]

The screw should have no effect on the frizzen free play. But that's not what his post stated.

Not sure if it is the case with the OP’s lock, but depending on the lock design, if the frizzen pivot screw is too short it can lock up the frizzen. Look at the frizzen pivot screw in this photograph for an example.

 

[FlinterNick]

Not sure if it is the case with the OP’s lock, but depending on the lock design, if the frizzen pivot screw is too short it can lock up the frizzen. Look at the frizzen pivot screw in this photograph for an example.

Totally different lock
Design. A short screw on an unbridled pan is supposed to be shouldered to the plate.

 

[oreclan]

On another note you should not use coth to hold the flint. Sooner or later it will catch a spark like charcloth.
This is a safety issue!
Use leather or lead instead.