Miroku 1766 Charleville having Hammer/Frizzen Problems

[SDSmlf]

Totally different lock
Design. A short screw on an unbridled pan is supposed to be shouldered to the plate.

Correct, just not familiar with the OP’s lock design and didn’t know if it was bridled or not. Leaves burrs/fit between lock plate, bridle and frizzen; pivot screw hole not drilled perpendicular or too much frizzen spring.

 

[1General_Grant]

On another note you should not use coth to hold the flint. Sooner or later it will catch a spark like charcloth.
This is a safety issue!
Use leather or lead instead.

alright

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I never grease my frizzen Springs any guns in 25 years I’ve never had any issues with performance. I oil them before I use them and after cleaning.

I’ve certainly repaired many of them with heavy gun grease though.

Polishing the bearing points up to 1500 … depends on what you mean by that, all 1500 will do Is polish over file marks. Starting at 200 working up to 1500 is overkill. Originals were not even that highly polished, wear and use will break in a moderately polished bearing point that is adequately hardened and tempered

220-320 is more than enough to debur a part that is rough but not much is needed beyond a few strokes with an Emory block

Disagree on the use of grease

This lock I'm currently working on has an issue with the frizzen not always opening. I polished the spring to 1500 (No...I did not start at 400 and jump to 1500....who does that?). I've polished the frizzen toe the same. I've studied both the spring and frizzen toe for contact and shape, but this lock will gouge (not scrape, not mark, not mar, GOUGE) the spring when left to just a quality polish. YOU can polish to an 80grit if that's what you like and it works for you. I'm going in steps to 1500 FOR THIS LOCK because of the fits it's giving me in gouging the spring.

Why? I can't tell you why. My 3 other flintlocks need no lube on the frizzen spring. Not a drop since 1979.

In addition, it doesn't matter what they did in 1785. The metals poured today are different than those in 1785. The metal they poured in 2020 is likely different than the metal poured in 2024. The metal in the lock I'm working on is what it is. Oil makes it work. Grease makes it work as well. Grease is MY choice to use. You or anyone else can use whatever you like. I will use grease.

I believe the reason this lock does the gouge thing is the spring metal is not the same quality as my other three. That's the only reason in my amateur opinion why this occurs. Once this lock is installed in the pistol it's going into, time will tell if I need to replace the frizzen spring or not.

All my input is geared for is to try and help the OP fix this maddening issue. This is what I've done and it works.

But you do you. That doesn't mean what I'm suggesting is wrong.

 

[FlinterNick]

This lock I'm currently working on has an issue with the frizzen not always opening. I polished the spring to 1500 (No...I did not start at 400 and jump to 1500....who does that?). I've polished the frizzen toe the same. I've studied both the spring and frizzen toe for contact and shape, but this lock will gouge (not scrape, not mark, not mar, GOUGE) the spring when left to just a quality polish. YOU can polish to an 80grit if that's what you like and it works for you. I'm going in steps to 1500 FOR THIS LOCK because of the fits it's giving me in gouging the spring.

Why? I can't tell you why. My 3 other flintlocks need no lube on the frizzen spring. Not a drop since 1979.

In addition, it doesn't matter what they did in 1785. The metals poured today are different than those in 1785. The metal they poured in 2020 is likely different than the metal poured in 2024. The metal in the lock I'm working on is what it is. Oil makes it work. Grease makes it work as well. Grease is MY choice to use. You or anyone else can use whatever you like. I will use grease.

I believe the reason this lock does the gouge thing is the spring metal is not the same quality as my other three. That's the only reason in my amateur opinion why this occurs. Once this lock is installed in the pistol it's going into, time will tell if I need to replace the frizzen spring or not.

All my input is geared for is to try and help the OP fix this maddening issue. This is what I've done and it works.

But you do you. That doesn't mean what I'm suggesting is wrong.

When polishing you progressively work up to the desired finish. I also don’t use paper I use die maker stones.

My opinion the OP ought to send his lock
To an expert.

I have plenty of experience with this particular lock to validate my advice on this forum to say your advice ought not be followed.

Gl with your lock

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Read reply #3

 

[Ed Pilkington]

I've tried flipping the flint upside down and I'm also a teetotaler.

Oops! Hope i didn’t offend you. This 86 year old sometimes acts and talks like a …

 

[1General_Grant]

Oops! Hope i didn’t offend you. This 86 year old sometimes acts and talks like a …

I'm not offended, don't worry.

 

[1General_Grant]

When polishing you progressively work up to the desired finish. I also don’t use paper I use die maker stones.

My opinion the OP ought to send his lock
To an expert.

I have plenty of experience with this particular lock to validate my advice on this forum to say your advice ought not be followed.

Gl with your lock

I ordered a spring vice from Track of the Wolf and bought some 220 grit, if I can't make it work I'll send it in.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

When polishing you progressively work up to the desired finish. I also don’t use paper I use die maker stones.

My opinion the OP ought to send his lock
To an expert.

I have plenty of experience with this particular lock to validate my advice on this forum to say your advice ought not be followed.

Gl with your lock

I agree with you. He should send it to an expert. I also see that you didn't recommend him sending it to you. That speaks volumes to your experience with this lock.

 

[FlinterNick]

I agree with you. He should send it to an expert. I also see that you didn't recommend him sending it to you. That speaks volumes to your experience with this lock.

If I recommend myself I reach out personally, nevertheless anyone who wishes to send me their locks are always welcome to reach out and discuss it with me. I currently have 19 locks on the bench with 5 repairs additional. My reviews are posted under my account and my work is on the forum under my name. My name is below, I have no anonymity.

 

[Johnn Davis]

maybe

Hard to say without working it by hand. The frizzen is supposed to spring forward after the hammer moves it forward a bit.
If it doesn't have some snap too it there may be some friction somewhere. As others have suggested. Loosed the frizzen pivot screw and put a drop of oil in there and try it again.
Sometimes it helps to take the frizzen off the lock and polish the screw shaft and the inside of the screw hole.
If there are scratches on top of the frizzen spring, you might polish the toe of the frizzen where it rides on the spring. Dont remove any metal. Just polish it.
You might try a larger flint or turn it bevel down so the flint strikes higher on the frizzen. Its a balancing act.
Good luck

 

[Johnn Davis]

locks

I always suggest a few simple adjustments be tried first. How else is a fellow supposed to learn anything?
Having said that a man ought to know his limitations.
Some of these early Japanese or India made locks were pretty bad. Some can be made serviceable by someone who knows what they are doing.
You can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The trick is finding a silk pig.

 

[1General_Grant]

Hard to say without working it by hand. The frizzen is supposed to spring forward after the hammer moves it forward a bit.
If it doesn't have some snap too it there may be some friction somewhere. As others have suggested. Loosed the frizzen pivot screw and put a drop of oil in there and try it again.
Sometimes it helps to take the frizzen off the lock and polish the screw shaft and the inside of the screw hole.
If there are scratches on top of the frizzen spring, you might polish the toe of the frizzen where it rides on the spring. Dont remove any metal. Just polish it.
You might try a larger flint or turn it bevel down so the flint strikes higher on the frizzen. Its a balancing act.
Good luck

I was going to polish with 220 grit.

The only flints I got are Tom Fuller English 8 from Track of the Wolf

 

[1General_Grant]

If I were you, I would send the lock to Brad Emig and have it tuned. Then you won't need a spring vice or any expertise on fixing a lock or listen to a thousand opinions on everything to do with a flintlock. Ask Brad about leather or lead and what flint you need. My two cents worth. Good luck.

What's his username?

 

[Dave Marsh]

https://cabincreek.net/contact-us/

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I was going to polish with 220 grit.

The only flints I got are Tom Fuller English 8 from Track of the Wolf

Be careful with that 220 grit for "polishing". 220 grit will remove metal fairly quickly (unless the metal is hardened).

I'd look at the pieces with a magnifying lens first to determine if you have deeper scratches. If you don't have deep scratches I'd suggest starting with 320\340 grit, then 400 and finally 600.

 

[wiscoaster]

..... If you don't have deep scratches I'd suggest starting with 320\340 grit, then 400 and finally 600.

I concur. 220 grit is pretty aggressive, especially if it's not hardened steel. I find that "wet sanding" with a couple drops of oil is helpful. And back the sandpaper with a sanding block, not finger pressure. You can make a small sanding block from a little piece of scrap wood and stick a cutout piece of the sandpaper to it with double-sided tape. Or you can wrap it around a small file. Note: dedicate one pair of scissors to cutting sandpaper. Once you cut sandpaper with a scissors, those scissors are pretty well shot for anything else.

 

[FlinterNick]

I concur. 220 grit is pretty aggressive, especially if it's not hardened steel. I find that "wet sanding" with a couple drops of oil is helpful. And back the sandpaper with a sanding block, not finger pressure. You can make a small sanding block from a little piece of scrap wood and stick a cutout piece of the sandpaper to it with double-sided tape. Or you can wrap it around a small file. Note: dedicate one pair of scissors to cutting sandpaper. Once you cut sandpaper with a scissors, those scissors are pretty well shot for anything else.

220 grit is considered a smoothed fine finish it’s only aggressive if you are aggressively polishing with it. Fine grit 220-400 generally. If you want a polished finish on your metalwork, these should be your grits. 800-2000 is in the micron finishes, overkill. This is a 220 then a brushed finish below. Polish with stoning or mineral oil if needed. To remove burrs 220 is perfectly fine or To give the part a smooth finish. Some builders use fine files or deburring tools.

However stones work better than paper. But paper is what you got then 180-400 are your grits.

 

[FlinterNick]

I concur. 220 grit is pretty aggressive, especially if it's not hardened steel. I find that "wet sanding" with a couple drops of oil is helpful. And back the sandpaper with a sanding block, not finger pressure. You can make a small sanding block from a little piece of scrap wood and stick a cutout piece of the sandpaper to it with double-sided tape. Or you can wrap it around a small file. Note: dedicate one pair of scissors to cutting sandpaper. Once you cut sandpaper with a scissors, those scissors are pretty well shot for anything else.

This is a 600 gr finish with die maker stones and stoning oil. This is moving into the over polished range.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

I was going to polish with 220 grit.

The only flints I got are Tom Fuller English 8 from Track of the Wolf

Whatever you do, I hope you will gain more knowledge of these fine old replicas and have a better understanding of the care and maintenance of them.

Go very, very easy with a 220 grit.