I had trouble with them also. Right now using Remington new hot caps,good so far. The German(RWS) are real good. I always buy them if they have them where I am buying.If you look in back of Dixie Catalog they have a list of all caps, RWS is number one. If I try two caps and gun don't fire I pull nipple and tickle in a little powder(4f),replace nipple, make sure nipple channel is open, then fire the gun. Usually goes off. Sounds like you are using way too many caps. I never dry fire a cap. If you clean right and the gun has a good open channel and powder is below nipple and cap goes off,gun shoots. Dilly
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Misfire after misfire
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If I'm reading you correctly, this is a new problem. I'm doubting that it has a thing to do with your lube or cleaning methods, or it would have cropped up before now.
CCI caps have been really reliable for me, but only with the right nipples. Somehow they're very slightly smaller than Remington and won't seat down quite as flush on some nipples (or worn/peened nipples). Lyman nipples are the worst with CCI's, but Buttler Creek or Hot Shot are just fine. Yet the Lyman's work just fine with Remingtons. Your Pedersoli nipples may be just as finicky as Lyman. In two years of use, have you ever replaced the nipple? Might be time, regardless of brand.
To test if it's a fit problem with CCI's and your Pedersoli nipples, try this: Load your rifle and point it downrange, then carefully lower the hammer down onto the cap and press on it with firm pressure to fully seat the cap. Now cock and fire. That's what I had to do to get reliable ignition with my Lymans and CCI. I couldn't get Remington caps, so I changed the nipples and haven't had to to that since.
CCI caps have been really reliable for me, but only with the right nipples. Somehow they're very slightly smaller than Remington and won't seat down quite as flush on some nipples (or worn/peened nipples). Lyman nipples are the worst with CCI's, but Buttler Creek or Hot Shot are just fine. Yet the Lyman's work just fine with Remingtons. Your Pedersoli nipples may be just as finicky as Lyman. In two years of use, have you ever replaced the nipple? Might be time, regardless of brand.
To test if it's a fit problem with CCI's and your Pedersoli nipples, try this: Load your rifle and point it downrange, then carefully lower the hammer down onto the cap and press on it with firm pressure to fully seat the cap. Now cock and fire. That's what I had to do to get reliable ignition with my Lymans and CCI. I couldn't get Remington caps, so I changed the nipples and haven't had to to that since.
Little Wattsy
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A little 
ff but I use both CCI and RWS MUSKET CAPS and I do NOT get misfires at all! Yah if I forget to wipe the oil out of the bore before the first shot then occassionally I will "misfire" but NEVER due to a Musket cap not going off of making the powder go bang.....
ff but I use both CCI and RWS MUSKET CAPS and I do NOT get misfires at all! Yah if I forget to wipe the oil out of the bore before the first shot then occassionally I will "misfire" but NEVER due to a Musket cap not going off of making the powder go bang.....CCI for me! If I do my part, the rifle will go bang every time.
I don't use anything with the name Remington on it.Their quality control has gone south over the years.
I agree with Brown bear! The cap to nipple fit, is more than likely the problem.
I don't use anything with the name Remington on it.Their quality control has gone south over the years.
I agree with Brown bear! The cap to nipple fit, is more than likely the problem.
poordevil
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I am not sure I am reading this right. Are you saying the mis fire is because the cap goes bang but not the load? Or the cap , after being hit does not go bang. I had the latter problem and it was due to a bugered up nipple. The cap would not seat all the way, first hit pushed it dound further then second hit went bang. I replaced the nipple and have had not further trouble. I also have never had a negitive problem with ether CCI or Remington caps, #'s 10 or 11
It sounds like a partially clogged patent breech. I had the same problem with a Perersoli Alamo some years back. Remove the cleanout screw and use a 22 bore brush on the breech channel, then flush it out with hot water. When cleaning between shots keep the hammer off the nipple and listen for air rushing in and out of the nipple. If that isn't happening, chances are good it won't fire. I use both Remington and CCI caps with no preference for one or the other, they both work. The fact that the caps are firing indicates that the problem is downstream.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.
paulvallandigham
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Sounds like you have built up crud in the powder chamber, and in the flash channel by not cleaning the gun properly, and not using the right powder. If the caps go off, and the charge doesn't ignite, its a pretty good indication that you have a blockage.
You are probably using too much fluid on that patch you run down the barrel between shots. And the jag you use may be too close to bore diameter, causing the patch to push crud ahead of it and back into the powder chamber.
Instead, you need a jag that is .030" smaller than your bore diameter, and the rings should be stepped back in size from the end back towards the rod, with each ring being about .010" smaller than the one before. You want the cleaning patch( pure cotton, or linen, like flannel) to slide over the lands on the way down the barrel, and blouse out and grab the crud in the grooves and lands as you PULL THE ROD BACK OUT of the barrel.
Between shootings, YOU DO HAVE TO FLUSH the barrel with soap and water, pumping a tight fitting jag and cleaning patch with soap on it in and out of the water, so that you create pressure to clean out the chamber and the flashchannel.
Put the end of the barrel in a bucket, or sink, filled with water, and pump the soap and water in and out of the hole for the nipple, which you remove. The difference in size of your .54 caliber bore, and the small flash channel will cause considerable pressure that will blow away and caked on crud that is blocking the flashchannel.
Don't hesitate to use a wire ( a bent paper clip has been used in a pinch) to clear the flash channel after removing the nipple, on the range, if the gun begins to hiccup!
If you insist on using substitute powders, then order CCI#11 Magnum caps, which are designed to ignite that stuff. Use Black Powder, and your standard #11 caps work just fine.
For the cost of the can of substitute powder, you can get 2 pounds of real black powder. See the Links on the index page to find the powder suppliers. You can order as little as 5 lbs. from Graf and sons and get it delivered to your door for about $12 a pound. Powder, Inc. also does small shipments. You save the most money if you order a case, and split it with an number of other shooters.
The reason these guns are fun to use is BECAUSE they require a little effort to learn how to make them work. Not everyone is willing to do that. When you do take a deer, it is a true trophy that you take extra pride in because you had to work a little harder to get it.
Do check the condition of the nipple. If its peened over on any side, that means the hammer is not hitting the nipple squarely, and you should be grinding away the high spot in the center of the hammer. Put some marking die on the edge of a NEW NIPPLE, lower the hammer to transfer die from the nipple to the face of the hammer. Then, cock the hammer back and look at the transfer. If it is not a 360 dgree circle, and of equal width all around the circle, you have a high spot( or more). Grind the high spot( where the dye is) with a small grinding bit you can buy in a hardware store for dremel tools. You don't have to own a dremel tool, as these can be chucked into a normal electric hand drill, too. Grind and test; Grind and test. Until you get that complete circle of dye on the face of the hammer. Then you can be assured that if there is priming compound in the percusson cap( I always look as I am loading my capper tool) the cap will fire on that nipple. By squaring the hammer to the top of the nipple, you end the uneven peening that caused this problem in the first place. Over time, some nipple will peen down, and need to be replaced. However, the Spit fire, and Hotshot nipples have excellent reputations for long life.
Always have an extra, new, nipple in your range box, so you don't have to run out and try to buy a replacement just before hunting season.
You are probably using too much fluid on that patch you run down the barrel between shots. And the jag you use may be too close to bore diameter, causing the patch to push crud ahead of it and back into the powder chamber.
Instead, you need a jag that is .030" smaller than your bore diameter, and the rings should be stepped back in size from the end back towards the rod, with each ring being about .010" smaller than the one before. You want the cleaning patch( pure cotton, or linen, like flannel) to slide over the lands on the way down the barrel, and blouse out and grab the crud in the grooves and lands as you PULL THE ROD BACK OUT of the barrel.
Between shootings, YOU DO HAVE TO FLUSH the barrel with soap and water, pumping a tight fitting jag and cleaning patch with soap on it in and out of the water, so that you create pressure to clean out the chamber and the flashchannel.
Put the end of the barrel in a bucket, or sink, filled with water, and pump the soap and water in and out of the hole for the nipple, which you remove. The difference in size of your .54 caliber bore, and the small flash channel will cause considerable pressure that will blow away and caked on crud that is blocking the flashchannel.
Don't hesitate to use a wire ( a bent paper clip has been used in a pinch) to clear the flash channel after removing the nipple, on the range, if the gun begins to hiccup!
If you insist on using substitute powders, then order CCI#11 Magnum caps, which are designed to ignite that stuff. Use Black Powder, and your standard #11 caps work just fine.
For the cost of the can of substitute powder, you can get 2 pounds of real black powder. See the Links on the index page to find the powder suppliers. You can order as little as 5 lbs. from Graf and sons and get it delivered to your door for about $12 a pound. Powder, Inc. also does small shipments. You save the most money if you order a case, and split it with an number of other shooters.
The reason these guns are fun to use is BECAUSE they require a little effort to learn how to make them work. Not everyone is willing to do that. When you do take a deer, it is a true trophy that you take extra pride in because you had to work a little harder to get it.
Do check the condition of the nipple. If its peened over on any side, that means the hammer is not hitting the nipple squarely, and you should be grinding away the high spot in the center of the hammer. Put some marking die on the edge of a NEW NIPPLE, lower the hammer to transfer die from the nipple to the face of the hammer. Then, cock the hammer back and look at the transfer. If it is not a 360 dgree circle, and of equal width all around the circle, you have a high spot( or more). Grind the high spot( where the dye is) with a small grinding bit you can buy in a hardware store for dremel tools. You don't have to own a dremel tool, as these can be chucked into a normal electric hand drill, too. Grind and test; Grind and test. Until you get that complete circle of dye on the face of the hammer. Then you can be assured that if there is priming compound in the percusson cap( I always look as I am loading my capper tool) the cap will fire on that nipple. By squaring the hammer to the top of the nipple, you end the uneven peening that caused this problem in the first place. Over time, some nipple will peen down, and need to be replaced. However, the Spit fire, and Hotshot nipples have excellent reputations for long life.
Always have an extra, new, nipple in your range box, so you don't have to run out and try to buy a replacement just before hunting season.
Dave Rosenthal
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Paul, you beat me to the punch!
I'll just put in my :2! It doesn't hurt to tap the side of the barrel to get some powder into the flash channel, before you attempt to seat the PRB upon the charge. A friend of mine has a .50 cal Hawken that simply needs to have it's side rapped, or it won't go bang on the first try. He was having problems! I took the gun, without cleaning, patching, zipkis--and re-loaded it and used the "rap" or "tap" technique...couldn't get it to missfire! Same tin of caps, same powder, patch, ball, etc.! Sometimes these things need to be taught who's the boss--with a tender love-tap upside the barrel :wink: .
Dave
I'll just put in my :2! It doesn't hurt to tap the side of the barrel to get some powder into the flash channel, before you attempt to seat the PRB upon the charge. A friend of mine has a .50 cal Hawken that simply needs to have it's side rapped, or it won't go bang on the first try. He was having problems! I took the gun, without cleaning, patching, zipkis--and re-loaded it and used the "rap" or "tap" technique...couldn't get it to missfire! Same tin of caps, same powder, patch, ball, etc.! Sometimes these things need to be taught who's the boss--with a tender love-tap upside the barrel :wink: .
Dave
Smoke_Ring
32 Cal.
My rifle had problems with misfires with CCI caps but after useing a breech scaper it worked fine. I use the CCI magnams now without problems, the fowling left behind does not bother them. Also the regular CCI sometimes will misfire in sub zero weather. I have used Remmington and the German caps and they all work about the same.
Emet Huntsman
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Second that. My TC Hawken .45 shot fine for along time, then began having misfires. I thought it was the caps (used both CCI and Remington). But on careful examination I found the nipple had been slightly deformed from all the shooting and was preventing the cap from fully seating. Changed out the nipple and all was good again. Now every season I change out the nipples on my percussion guns -- cheap insurance. :thumbsup:
Even 2 misfires in 20 caps is way too high. All the things that others have said have value so I'll try to think of a few other areas. Main spring strength- how hard is the hammer falling? A weak main spring could be a problem. If the cap doesn't sit flush with the top of the nipple, if it "rides high" then the hammer has to first push the cap fully down and then have enough power left to pop the cap. If the caps are firing but the charge isn't exploding then the built up residue is a good place to inspect. Remember that some breech face areas are coned not flat, so if the area is coned and you are using a flat scraper- you're not really cleaning the area.
When you snap the cap between shots, are you pointing it at the ground or a blade of grass to insure there is force coming out of the barrel? If the flame is getting through there shouldn't be a misfire.
If your dry patch isn't really drying the barrel, then the charge could maybe get fouled- try a couple of dry patches or skip altogether.
When you snap the cap between shots, are you pointing it at the ground or a blade of grass to insure there is force coming out of the barrel? If the flame is getting through there shouldn't be a misfire.
If your dry patch isn't really drying the barrel, then the charge could maybe get fouled- try a couple of dry patches or skip altogether.
ohio ramrod
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I use cci, reminton, and for deer hunting only RWS. No misfire problems with any brand unless weather is reaalllyyy damp then The RWS are superior. If your caps are going off but not the powder charge I would expect either fouling build up, pluged nipple, or a poor substitute. I use only Goex.There is a reason pyrodex and other substitutes can be sold at your local hardware store but not Black powder. Black powder ignites at lower temperatures ( meaning more likely to explode) Which you want in your gun, not on the counter!
Lotta good advice here. :thumbsup:
I'm thinkin' patent breech crud too. A .36 cal brush with a patch over it works well to clean out my Lyman breeches. Nothing beats flushing tho.
One thing I have not seen mentioned is to be sure and load with the hammer on half-cock and NO CAP on the nipple. Not even a spent one that didn't fall off. When you ram the patched ball down it will blow powder into he flash channel right up to the nipple where it needs to be.
If you load the gun and then remove the nipple, you should see granules of powder down in the hole. If you don't, there is a blockage going on in there.
I'm thinkin' patent breech crud too. A .36 cal brush with a patch over it works well to clean out my Lyman breeches. Nothing beats flushing tho.
One thing I have not seen mentioned is to be sure and load with the hammer on half-cock and NO CAP on the nipple. Not even a spent one that didn't fall off. When you ram the patched ball down it will blow powder into he flash channel right up to the nipple where it needs to be.
If you load the gun and then remove the nipple, you should see granules of powder down in the hole. If you don't, there is a blockage going on in there.
For and example, I bought a used Uberti Hawken rifle, which has a patent breech. I had misfire after misfire! I cleaned it, and still same problem!
I kept digging and digging, and discovered patching material packed tight in the patent breech. I managed to get it out with a worm, and scraper. This material had been soaking up lube and cleaner, and kept getting to the main charge!
I kept digging and digging, and discovered patching material packed tight in the patent breech. I managed to get it out with a worm, and scraper. This material had been soaking up lube and cleaner, and kept getting to the main charge!
Funny,
hawken45ball started this post, his issue, and has not posted back to our questions that will ultimately cure his issue!
We have collectively given the same advise and asked the same questions about 4 times over.
I still want to know what he uses for lube and how damp his patches are.
Did I miss a reply somewhere?
hawken45ball started this post, his issue, and has not posted back to our questions that will ultimately cure his issue!
We have collectively given the same advise and asked the same questions about 4 times over.
I still want to know what he uses for lube and how damp his patches are.
Did I miss a reply somewhere?
Blizzard of '93
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welcome to the Forum :hatsoff: .
you may need to clean the flash channel - the nipple may be set too deep into the bore also.
check both.
when you dump powder turn the rifle to the drum side and rap the opposite side a couple times with your hand to jar grains into the channel. this has cured a lot of mis-fire problems.
also Pyro is harder to light off than the real deal.
Paul V can tell you about it in detail.
you may need to clean the flash channel - the nipple may be set too deep into the bore also.
check both.
when you dump powder turn the rifle to the drum side and rap the opposite side a couple times with your hand to jar grains into the channel. this has cured a lot of mis-fire problems.
also Pyro is harder to light off than the real deal.
Paul V can tell you about it in detail.
I agree,
Maybe he just read all the advice, and hasn't stopped shooting yet :grin:
Maybe he just read all the advice, and hasn't stopped shooting yet :grin:
This was a good thread for me to follow, I am pretty new to this, and having the same issue with a T/C .50 cal Hawken.
Using CCI's, I am getting a lot of misfires. the cap pops, but the powder does not ignite. This happens quite a bit, much to my surprise.
I noticed crud in the nipple, and had only fired 3-4 shots! Cleaned it out, and the gun fired just fine. Guys on the range said "that's normal for T/C's" (always good to get free advice and help..)
Anyway, I am using "Triple 7", and will make the switch to the real stuff as soon as I burn through this canister.
Also, I bought a hot shot nipple, and a few tins of primers made in Germany. (I forget the name, comes in red and black tin)
This is an almost mint T/C that is 30 years old, the hammer seems to fall perfectly, and I am a gun cleaning fanatic, so you can imagine my confusion.
I'm confident the changes I am making and the advice on this thread is going to solve my problem.
This is a wonderful site, with TONS of help, thank you sharing your insights,
Rich
Using CCI's, I am getting a lot of misfires. the cap pops, but the powder does not ignite. This happens quite a bit, much to my surprise.
I noticed crud in the nipple, and had only fired 3-4 shots! Cleaned it out, and the gun fired just fine. Guys on the range said "that's normal for T/C's" (always good to get free advice and help..)
Anyway, I am using "Triple 7", and will make the switch to the real stuff as soon as I burn through this canister.
Also, I bought a hot shot nipple, and a few tins of primers made in Germany. (I forget the name, comes in red and black tin)
This is an almost mint T/C that is 30 years old, the hammer seems to fall perfectly, and I am a gun cleaning fanatic, so you can imagine my confusion.
I'm confident the changes I am making and the advice on this thread is going to solve my problem.
This is a wonderful site, with TONS of help, thank you sharing your insights,
Rich
You don't "need" a hot shot nipple! I know some people swear by them, but they are not needed!
Ensure your gun is clean, and nearly any regular cap will ignite the main powder charge!
Triple seven sounds, sounds like three carbs and high performance don't it! When all you need is the stuff folks used hundreds of years before!
I am not going to state anything about his capping procedure, but 1800's cap goes boom!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OleGFPx-6Ak[/youtube]
Ensure your gun is clean, and nearly any regular cap will ignite the main powder charge!
Triple seven sounds, sounds like three carbs and high performance don't it! When all you need is the stuff folks used hundreds of years before!
I am not going to state anything about his capping procedure, but 1800's cap goes boom!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OleGFPx-6Ak[/youtube]
Little Wattsy
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Mule Brain said:
And a few hundred years before THAT they used sticks and rocks.... :blah: Or in other words you dont "NEED" black powder at all :wink:
Seriously, hot shot nipples ARE better if not "needed". Tripple 7 IS good stuff but probably not better. Shoot what you got and enjoy.
