Misfires

[morb]

I picked up a nipple pick today but couldn't find any pipe cleaners.
I'll be going out tomorrow and try the things that you all have mentioned. I would like to have it reliable again before I go hunting, hopefully sometime this weekend. The scraper I have is rounded on the end so I'm sure it's reaching the bottom of the breech.
I haven't used real black powder before so I'm not sure if this kind of problem is common with BP.
Thank you all for your help. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Ken Cormier]

With the nonsmoking agenda (a good thing) pipe cleaners could be hard to find. You can get craft like pipe cleaners at any craft store..

 

[morb]

I'll have to look around but I might have to wait till I go the city next week. we don't have a lot of variety here in fact I'm not sure why have more than one store here, they all carry the same stuff from one to another

 

[AZbpBurner]

Do a search for pipecleaners on E-Bay. They have numerous sellers, and look for one with free shipping. Some pipecleaners are just regular cotton, and others have stiff bristles woven in - these are the best for cleaning the firechannels on cap rifles.

 

[dikman]

Unless your scraper has been specially designed, it's unlikely that it's reaching to the bottom of a patent breech. Some use an undersize brass brush to get in there.
Personally, I'm with the pushing-fouling-into the breech-area camp. I clean between shots, but I make sure I don't push all the way to the bottom.

 

[William O.]

I'm going to suggest something simple that may or may not help but can't hurt. Change your cleaning patches to 100% cotton flannel that is usually found at your local fabric store. Use 91% rubbing alcohol to lightly dampen the patch and before starting your range session to remove any left over oil as well as between shots. Your cleaning jag should allow the patch to stretch out on the way down then bunch up when you withdraw it, bringing any powder residue with it. Don't do anything more than down and up, you're not cleaning just swabbing. The alcohol naturally has a little water in it and both should cut the crud and allow it to be contained on the patch and removed.

Hope you get the problem solved.

 

[ccmountainman]

Everybody here gave you pretty good tips and ideas,
But some apparently missed the fact you claim it will shoot a few good ones and then start missing.
That would pretty much eliminate the nipple itself being the culprit.
I have NEVER popped a cap or two to clear the barrel/ snail/ drum. Reason; I very thoroughly clean the gun there is NO residue left in it.
I clean with Rubbing Alcohol so no water to evaporate and leave rust.
I lube only if it will be stored for a lengthy time (which is rare).
I use a couple drops of gun or sewing machine oil on a flannel patch. let it get absorbed. then swab. before final assembly and put away I clean the snail /drum and nipple last and replace, this way no residual oil stays in there after cleaning the barrel.
Before shooting Alcohol patch swab.

What you didn't mention is, have you had this same issue with T7 after a few shots ans swabbing with the Moosemilk?
I suspect yes.

Moosemilk is oil based. Most likely it is leaving a residue film. And possibly degrading the powder up against the barrel metal.
The 1st cap as you say punches through the film.
The 2nd sets off the charge.
Stop using the moosemilk between shots.
No need to swab between shots unless:

1. You can no longer ram the projectile home
2. your accuracy is suffering greatly

A lot of cleaning patches today are synthetic material, don't use them.
Are you using PRB, are you sure your patch is 100% cotton. If it has polyester etc in it, it can and will leave residue behind.

Are you using any kind of natural Petroleum based lube or oil on the cleaning patch or the PRB? It to will leave a residue.

One other thing you might also check. A spent cap in the hammer cup.
But I suspect it is the milk.

 

[grey8833]

Been there, done that.

My case was caused by trying to clean to the bottom of the barrel when I finally cleaned after 10 to 15 shots. I got exactly what you saw, a plugged cross hole to the patent breech. Had to pipe clean it out to get the shot out. Solved the issue when I started loading my Hawken like I load my Irish Target rifle >

Namely - I started using cards.

Load powder, load a card, patch and ball. When I need to clean I load powder and card and clean to the card. Since I started using oxyoke patches I can get to 30 or so shots before it gets stiff to load. Have to keep moisture out of the breech area.

Mike F

 

[morb]

YThank you everyone for all your help.
The reason I swab between shots is because my rifle groups very nice when I do, if I don't wipe between shots accuracy goes to hell.
I've been hunting the last few days so I haven't done any target shooting during that time, they shortened the muzzle loader season this year so I've only got 2 days left.
My son found me some pipe cleaners yesterday so after I was done hunting I discharged my rifle and went to work cleaning it. I cleaned it my usual way, then I use the scraper which does fit the breech then I use patches on the scraper to clean the breech, I keep doing this till the patches are clean.
What I did different this time was poked the nipple pick into the breech and some crap came out of it, did this a few times then ran the scraper down with a patch and it came out dirty.
I then used the pipe cleaner which is a little tricky as I can't get the clean out screw out with out drilling it, then used rubbing alcohol for the final scrub.
I got the fire chamber and breech nice and clean. What beleive was happening was that as much as I cleaned I never got it all and it kept building up and the film I saw was exactly what you all said, left over oils and cleaning solution.
So now I need to try shooting again and see how it goes and make sure I clean every nook and cranny.
Thanks again, I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[kurts]

when I'm done cleaning I put about 150 psi air through the nipple not much crud stays in there.

 

[redbug9]

CVA makes a breech plug cleaner, CVA # AC1615. This is the brass bristle pipe cleaner mentioned above. Use it to clean the flash channel.

A damp spit patch between shots is good practice. It greatly improves the accuracy and loadability my Renegade. I agree, ditch the Moose Milk. Use something that doesn't leave a residue in the bore.

These two small adjustments should elimnate this problem.

 

[Josh Smith]

Morb,

As others have said, replace the nipple. While you have the nipple off, blow through the threaded hole with an air compressor.

I have had situations where the nipple got peened into a larger diameter. When you're talking misfires, do you mean that the cap does go off?

Josh

 

[morb]

Hi Josh
I have a new nipple on it, by misfire I mean the cap goes off but not the charge.
I have cleaned my rifle using the suggestions from everyone here and I beleive that I have it cleaned better than I ever had before. I'll be shooting it this weekend so I'll know then if I have the problem solved.
I'm sure after reading everyone's posts that the problem was residual oil and cleaning solution in the flash channel.
I'll post my findings once I shoot it this weekend.

 

[ccmountainman]

When you are done hunting .
On your clean out screw.
Remove barrel and nipple
squirt some penetrating oil in the flash channel.
roll barrel over so cleanout screw is down.
Let oil soak a couple days.
Put in padded vice screw up.
A small micro torch preferred but butane torch will work,
put nipple back in just snug.
Gently heat the snail / drum. No direct heat to the nipple or cleanout screw,
Then with preferably a hammer type impact driver ( Harbor Freight about $10) and a good fitting screwdriver blade hit and twist, Will usually break the screw free.
You can do it without the impact driver too.
Only loosen the screw two or three turns. Leave in til snail/ drum is cool. Then remove.
Dress the threads in drum with a tap. replace screw if you want. But apply some anti seize to threads. Do NOT over tighten.

Drilling is the last resort.

 

[morb]

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the ear on the screw head broke off, there is nothing for the screw driver to turn against.

 

[morb]

I finally had a chance to some shooting today, I used everyone's ideas and things were going good till I got a hang fire. So starting popping a cap before every shot and it helped but if I forgot to do this then I'd get a hang fire. I also had one misfire out of 20 or so shots. My gun was was sqeeky clean and dry, I used dry patches to wipe between shots, the powder residue seemed moist as I had no trouble running a dry cleaning patch throught it the cleaning patches I use are cotton and fit quite snug with the jag I use.
I removed the nipple to clean the rifle after shooting and that residue or crust or what ever you want to call it was there again. I took a picture of it to help explain.

 

[bpd303]

With a quite snug dry patch, I would say you are pushing the fouling down into the patent breech & flash channel. Try a looser patch that is damp The patch should ride over the fouling then bunch up when you pull it out pulling the fouling with it.

Another thing is do you put the hammer on half cock and remove the fired cap when swabbing and loading?

 

[house]

My T/C Hawken would miss fire every so often, but since buying a hot shot nipple for it I haven't had anymore misfires. Easy fix and eases the mind when that critter steps out you want to put in the freezer.

 

[morb]

Yes I put in on half cock when wiping and loading. I have heard of others using the hot shot nipple, some good some not so good.
What is the difference between a hot shot and a regular nipple besides the vent holes? Does it have a larger flash hole?

 

[Zonie]

It is basically the same as other nipples except for the vent hole in the cone.

The flash hole is sized to send a good hot jet of flame towards the powder without letting a bunch of gas come blowing back out of the nipple.

A large hole thru a nipple can ruin accuracy and damage the lock by blowing the hammer back.

In your photo of the nipple hole it looks like there is an opening at the bottom, roughly in the center.
Is that just crud or is that the flame channel that feeds the nipples flame into the breech?

If it is the connecting flame channel it looks like it is not totally finished. It should be a nice clean hole with most of it open to the nipple hole.