More noob questions

[skeaterbait]

Hi all,

I am looking at making a new figured stock for my rifle and I am finding a gold mine of info here. However, no one seems to talk about cutting a barrel channel.

How would this be done by someone who has a mediocre wood shop? I have routers, table saw, band saw etc. but lacking in hand tools.

I guess more specifically, is there a good way to do this with power tools?

 

[Robby]

Skeater, I describe one way to do this in the string below, it can also be used for straight barrels without the Bondo. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/253505/

 

[mikemeteor]

In addition to any new replys you may get, if you fiddle with the advanced search function and get it working for you, I believe you can dig up numerous past discussions on crafting the barrel channel. The advanced search engine does have a little learning curve, but there's a gold mine of past info to tap into. :hatsoff:

 

[Black Hand]

Hi all,

I am looking at making a new figured stock for my rifle and I am finding a gold mine of info here. However, no one seems to talk about cutting a barrel channel.

How would this be done by someone who has a mediocre wood shop? I have routers, table saw, band saw etc. but lacking in hand tools.

I guess more specifically, is there a good way to do this with power tools?

Power tools will only get you so far and then you need to finish the inletting with hand tools.....

 

[ebiggs1]

If this is a first, as it sounds it may be, get a piece of cheap wood to practice on first.

Unless you have some router bits that I don't and I have a fairly complete wood shop, power tools ain't gonna do it, at least not all of it.

 

[bioprof]

If this is a first, as it sounds it may be, get a piece of cheap wood to practice on first.

Unless you have some router bits that I don't and I have a fairly complete wood shop, power tools ain't gonna do it, at least not all of it.

Yes, but they will get you very close if you are inletting a straight barrel. Now a swamped barrel is a whole different ball of wax.

 

[skeaterbait]

Thanks all for the replies. I have lots of reading to do and maybe some new tools to buy (awe darn).

I figure on testing things on some pine to start so I can afford to screw up a lot and then work my way up. With any luck at all in a few weeks/months/therapy sessions, I will have something worth posting.

 

[Zonie]

As you say your going to build from a solid piece of wood my first recommendation is that you decide which surface is going to be the top. Then, get the top and both sides planed flat and square with one another.

You can draw the stocks outline on the blank if you wish but do not cut away any of the wood on the top surface. You will want it nice and flat to serve as the rest for your routers base.

Your router must have a good adjustable fence. and I would recommend that you use a straight cutting carbide bit. That bit will have a lot of material to remove before your done and steel bits usually dull up rather quickly in a hard gunstock wood.

To use my method, the diameter of the bit should be the same as, or slightly smaller than the width of one of the barrel flats.

For a 13/16" octagon barrel that would make the maximum bit size 5/16" (.3125).
For a 7/8" octagon barrel use a 5/16 or a 3/8" bit.
For a 15/16" barrel use a 3/8" bit.
For a 1" barrel use a 3/8 bit and take two passes to make a .415 wide groove.

It is a good idea to clamp some sort of stop to the wood at the breech end so you don't accidentally overcut the length of the slot.

Position the fence so that the bit cuts right down the center of the barrel channel.
Use multiple cuts to work the depth to where you want the bottom of the barrel.

Once the bottom flat's groove is finished, readjust the fence so that the bit will be cutting one of the side flats.
(Remember, it is better to leave a little wood than it is to cut the barrel channel oversize so be careful with your measurements).

The finished depth for the bottom of both side flats cuts will be the bottom flats depth minus the height of the corner of the side flat.

To calculate this value divide the width of the barrel flats by 2. I'll call this "A".

Now multiply A times .41 and write the answer down and call that answer "B".

Subtract B from A. This is the height above the bottom flat to stop cutting the side flats.

For example, with a 7/8" octagon, A is 1/2 of 7/8 or, 7/16 (.437 but we can call it .440 for this job). This is "A"

.44 times .41 is .180. This is "B".

.44 (A) minus .18 (B) is .26, so, both side flats should be cut down to a depth that will stop .26 above the bottom flat.

At this point, some will try to use a 45 degree cutter to mill out the bottom corners leaving the areas that will interface with the two angular flats on the bottom of the barrel but it is just as easy to use a 1/4" or 5/16 wide razor sharp chisel to cut these two 45 degree surfaces.
Just imagine a line that connects the outer corners of the side flat cuts with the bottom corners of the bottom flat cut.

Remove the fillets at the breech of the barrel channel using a razor sharp chisel.

After the barrel channel is cut, it, and the barrel becomes the basis for the location of all other parts.

Remember this order of command (so to speak):
The barrel locates the breech plug face.

The breech plug face (+ 1/4") locates the center of the locks pan or the side drum.

The locks sear locates the trigger.

The trigger locates the butt plate.

Folks may notice that I'm rounding off some of the values like the tangent of 22.5 degrees but for cutting a wooden channel for a barrel I don't feel that a few thousandths of an inch will make enough difference to make 3 or 4 place decimals necessary. If I was describing cuts in metal parts where extreme precision was required I would suggest using 3 place decimals for all calculations.) :grin:

Have fun.

 

[skeaterbait]

Excellent info Zonie, thank you. Don't suppose you have that in picture form :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

With a barrel blank, first you have to decide how deep into the blank you are going to cut the Mortise. You always want to leave some "Waste" wood on the outside, that can be remove towards the end of the stock making. This waste will take all the cuts, dings, nicks, and gouges that can occur during wood cutting, and carving.

You are involved in removing lots of wood that you don't want. With a table saw with a good fence, you can cut the two side Flats accurately. Then move to cut deeply into the center for the bottom flats. Having removed all that wood, what remains can be more easily removed with several passes of a router. The router can also cut those angled flats that bridge the distance from the corners of the bottom flat, and the two side flats. Hand tools- chisels, mostly are needed to square the corners back at the breech, so that the barrel sits back squarely against a shoulder in the barrel mortise. The tang is then inletted by first connecting it to the barrel( some are attached the breech plug; some are separate, in "hooked breech rifles", and will need to be temporarily glued to the barrel lug.)Use some kind of marking dye to help you see the high spots that need to be removed with your fine, and very sharp chisels.

Don't expect your first effort to be free of mistakes. For that matter your hundredth build won't be free of mistakes. Don't hesitate to practice skills and cutting techniques on scrap wood, or soft woods, FIRST, before you make any cut. You can always take more wood off, but you can't put it back on as easily. :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[jsn]

I am getting ready to inlet a tapered and flared oct-round barrel, This seems to be easier on the round portion but I am goung to take a router into the barrel chanel at a 1/4 in then scrape for a while making the chanel perfectly strait, would this work well?

 

[Rhett Griffith]

I have an old Stanley 45 combination plane that makes short work of cutting long straight grooves. I plan to use it to rough in the barrel channel when I build my first gun from a blank. It is easier for me to control than my routers or tablesaw and it is so much more pleasant to listen to the shaving hissing out of that old plane than to listen to the scream of a router!

 

[skeaterbait]

I was hoping a router could be used for the longer part of the inlet. I can be pretty good at focusing on small areas such as the breech plug and tang end, but keeping my eye sight straight down the length I fear would be much akin to asking a snake to move in a straight line.

 

[Paul R]

If you want to use a router for the barrel channel, as a custom furniture builder, I would recommend you use a router table with a router using bits with no less then 1/2" shank. I also would recommend using a solid carbide, spiral, up-cut bit,3/8" in diameter. If 3/8" is too wide for the bottom flat, do not cut to full depth and then finish by hand.
The spiral bit will have a lot less chatter then a straight bit and allow for a slightly heavier cut. You will still not be able to take full depth cuts. Do not attempt this with a down-spiral bit- control will be much more difficult.
If this is new learning, practice first on a piece of the same species of wood. That will teach you how much wood you can take out at one pass. When you feel comfortable to try on your stock wood, be sure to have a 'setup' piece of wood the same width of your stock, to 'prove' each bit adjustment before attempting the next cut on your stock.
Be sure to mark the stop point for the breech on bottom of stock and on the fence even with the leading side if the bit so you know where to stop on each pass. You might also want to make a complete,short section of barrel channel in a piece of scrap before you do any cutting on your stock. Don't ask me how I know.
The side of the stock against the fence must be straight and flat with the top straight and flat and square to that side. If not, the barrel channel will not be straight. I do all my cutting from one side and in the same direction. That pretty much insures the channel sides are parallel. That is why using a setup piece is so important.

If I haven't been clear or if you have further questions, either post them here or email me direct.

Paul

 

[skeaterbait]

Thanks Moose. I should have plenty of practice wood. I stumbled in to a pretty good deal today, a local mill had some CM so I took the hour drive up to gander. I came home with a 2x12x8' piece that was very rough sawn. The guy told me it had some good curl but I couldn't see a thing. Of course when I get home the first thing I do is run it through the planer. WOW, what a lovely piece of wood that should produce at least four stock attempts and all for $50.

 

[Paul R]

Sweet!

 

[paulvallandigham]

A hand held router would require guide rails, IMHO. A table mounted router with a fence would be better. The big mistake many guys make is trying to take all the wood off at once. Be nice to the cutting tools and they last forever. ABUSE them, and they die a quick death!

I like the idea of using a table saw, with a good fence( measure three times; cut once) to hog out most of the wood in a barrel mortise. Depending on size of the barrel, you can often break off the strips of wood between the cuts with your fingers, or a chisel in the right place. I think you can accomplish the same with the use of a well designed router bits, as described above. That final cut needs to be done carefully and slowly to achieve its "Finished Look".

But, I have seen men cut out the waste wood with a drill press- sometimes using an end mill cutter, but more often using various drill bits . When time is money, you use what you have to get down to the serious work that requires time to do well. I am sure we have all seen foster bits used to hog out the wood for patch boxes, and for the sear bar on locks. I have seen all manner of drills used to take out wood from lock mortises, and even from the tang mortise.

My brother has used the actual barrel end to scrape the rest of a barrel channel out so that it fits the barrel perfectly- or as near to perfect as he can make it. The whole barrel does give you lots to hold onto with both hands, and lets you use your leg muscles as well as your back muscles to scrap wood out of the channel quickly.

Keep us posted on your success. Sound like you bought a great piece of wood for stocks. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[MSW]

it is well said that a power tool can get you into trouble a whole lot faster than it can get you out of trouble.

although i build a pretty good barn, and i'm not afraid to use them, i would advise against power tools on the first try, not because it's not "period correct" but because the potential to mess up a nice piece of wood is far greater than any potential advantage in speed or convenience. therefore, go with the hand plane.

mind you, this is the opinion of the cranky old man, and has no actual bearing upon any inference about your ability or aptitude: i've seen lots of folks get perfectly good results with routers and table saws and the like and there's no reason to believe that you can't do it as well - it's just my personal preference. the degree of control is (in my mind) much greater with hand tools than with power tools.

if you're building for time (i.e. 'time is money') and you need to get the work out in a cost- efficient manner, power tools are the way to go: they will hog out a boatload of stock in a really big hurry, and you can do the fine finish work with super sharp chisels, but i enjoy the quiet and contemplative nature of taking small shavings.

OK - that's the luddite tirade du jour.

this is one guy's uninvited opinion. free and no doubt worth every penny. don't take it too terribly seriously...

good luck with your build, and when it's done, send pictures!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Oh, I agree with you. That is why I said, "measure three times, and cut once." Power tool will get you into trouble so fast it will make your head spin, even if you manage to save your fingers! :thumbsup: