Musket Cap on TC Hawken

[mushka]

I only have one gun that requires musket caps and I do find it easier to cap than the rest of my guns that use the 10 or 11 caps. Arthritic fingers make this so. I'll just soldier on til I find it necessary to convert all of them to musket caps if it can be done.

 

[Patched]

The mindset of the "bigger is better" crowd will never be changed with facts. #11s work just fine and have ever since the original Hawken rifles came into being.

I’m not sure who the “bigger is better” crowd is or if they even have a mindset…I’ve been at this muzzle stuffing stuff for 50 years… all my remaining percussion guns (4 custom Hawken plains rifle style) have been set up for musket caps….1) easier to handle at all temperatures 2) musket caps throw a notable “bigger“ flame into my patent breeches…#11s have worked great….musket caps work even better especially if I’m forced to use 777 type powder.

 

[brownac1983]

My personal experience, and my main reason for using musket caps, is that just like the posters above, I find them easier to handle. It's not a major issue on the range, but when I climb into a deer stand in the dark and it's 20 degrees, I'd rather not have to fiddle with a #11.

Anecdotally, though, I'll offer this story: I was hunting with my brother in law a few years back. I had my normal hunting rifle (TC with musket caps and real powder), and he had a TC with the #11 cap and Pyrodex. Our stands were a couple hundred yards apart. A little after sunrise I heard two caps pop. He was sighted in on a buck and had a misfire, then recapped and had a second misfire before the buck stared at him and walked off. I suspect that he didn't heed my advice and left a little oil in the breech area when he cleaned the rifle last. He popped two more caps trying to unload it with no success. I swapped my nipple into his rifle and the first musket cap sent it downrange. That's not a scientific test, and it's very possible that the next #11 could have done the same, but it sold me on musket caps for hunting. I feel like it's a little extra insurance in adverse conditions. Plus they're easier to handle and I bought a case of them.

 

[Patched]

My personal experience, and my main reason for using musket caps, is that just like the posters above, I find them easier to handle. It's not a major issue on the range, but when I climb into a deer stand in the dark and it's 20 degrees, I'd rather not have to fiddle with a #11.

Anecdotally, though, I'll offer this story: I was hunting with my brother in law a few years back. I had my normal hunting rifle (TC with musket caps and real powder), and he had a TC with the #11 cap and Pyrodex. Our stands were a couple hundred yards apart. A little after sunrise I heard two caps pop. He was sighted in on a buck and had a misfire, then recapped and had a second misfire before the buck stared at him and walked off. I suspect that he didn't heed my advice and left a little oil in the breech area when he cleaned the rifle last. He popped two more caps trying to unload it with no success. I swapped my nipple into his rifle and the first musket cap sent it downrange. That's not a scientific test, and it's very possible that the next #11 could have done the same, but it sold me on musket caps for hunting. I feel like it's a little extra insurance in adverse conditions. Plus they're easier to handle and I bought a case of them.

Exactly….a bigger flame delivered with more force is insurance under field conditions…I think it was demonstrated in Sam Fadala’s book, I could be wrong…apparently the Civil War armorers thought they needed an ignition upgrade on the rifles …soldiers had to be carrying small caps for their revolvers.

 

[brownac1983]

Exactly….a bigger flame delivered with more force is insurance under field conditions…I think it was demonstrated in Sam Fadala’s book, I could be wrong…apparently the Civil War armorers thought they needed an ignition upgrade on the rifles …soldiers had to be carrying small caps for their revolvers.

I agree. Also, Val Forgett Jr. of Navy Arms, who would have had access to anything and everything muzzleloader related, insisted on musket caps for his famous African expedition for the same reason. His endorsement outweighs anything I could say.

 

[user 48679]

https://www.amazon.com/Thompson-Center-Accessories-54167252-Traditional/dp/B001MQM7ZC

 

[Snydly]

I was in Dunham's a couple days ago and there was a big stack of cci # 11's but they were priced at 11.95. They were 4.99 pre Biden???

$11.95 compared to $4.99...... back when I started shooting black powder I purchased a Navy Arms 1851 cap and ball for $25.00 compared to now of $300. Times change. It ain't going back to what it was.

 

[Electrod47]

In this day and age I am prepared for my BP T/C New Englander to fire either 209's, Musket Caps, 11's 10's even the adapter for SP primers. It just makes sense. I have not noticed any deep deficiency from any of them.
Frankly, after all is said and done for me is, I prefer Musket caps.

 

[SDSmlf]

CCI supposedly (according to them) introduced the #11 percussion cap in 1975. I'm pretty sure they were around a lot earlier than that, but I've never seen anything that says Hawken used them. I would think they would've been considered large pistol caps at the time.

Percussion caps were invented in the 1820s, and not by CCI. And as far as never having seen anything that says Hawken used percussion caps, I wonder what the Hawkens brothers put percussion cap nipples on their original guns for if not for percussion caps? I believe this is what @Rifleman1776 was referring to.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I’m not sure who the “bigger is better” crowd is or if they even have a mindset…I’ve been at this muzzle stuffing stuff for 50 years… all my remaining percussion guns (4 custom Hawken plains rifle style) have been set up for musket caps….1) easier to handle at all temperatures 2) musket caps throw a notable “bigger“ flame into my patent breeches…#11s have worked great….musket caps work even better especially if I’m forced to use 777 type powder.

You may do yer own thang. On that we can agree.

 

[Rifleman1776]

$11.95 compared to $4.99...... back when I started shooting black powder I purchased a Navy Arms 1851 cap and ball for $25.00 compared to now of $300. Times change. It ain't going back to what it was.

I still have a plastic (tin) of caps left from my ml shop I closed in 1976 when we moved to Arkansas. The price tag says "$0.79". They are imports but I sold and used a lot of them.

 

[brownac1983]

Percussion caps were invented in the 1820s, and not by CCI. And as far as never having seen anything that says Hawken used percussion caps, I wonder what the Hawkens brothers put percussion cap nipples on their original guns for if not for percussion caps? I believe this is what @Rifleman1776 was referring to.

I'm speaking specifically of #11 size caps. As far as I can tell, they weren't very popular until the "muzzleloading revival" of the 1970s when CCI chose that as one of their standard sizes.

If you zoom in on photos of original Hawken rifles, they appear to be outfitted with musket size nipples, or close to it. They're certainly larger and more tapered than #11 nipples.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Given the current availability of certain things, I was wondering if it would be a good move to get a Musket nipple for my TC Hawken and using Musket caps. I've never had an issue with the #11 caps, however I'd like the option. Will this work on that rifle? One thing I read somewhere cautioned about making sure the cap itself will fit in the lock striker.

It is not quite apples to apples, but I converted a 1995 CVA St. Louis Hawken .50 ( I used to have) to a musket nipple with no issues with hammer strike. Good luck!

 

[UndeadPoet]

I agree. Also, Val Forgett Jr. of Navy Arms, who would have had access to anything and everything muzzleloader related, insisted on musket caps for his famous African expedition for the same reason. His endorsement outweighs anything I could say.

View attachment 171483View attachment 171484

“…big, hairy, dangerous, and irritated, at close range.” lol no doubt!

 

[brownac1983]

“…big, hairy, dangerous, and irritated, at close range.” lol no doubt!

Reminds me of a girl I used to date

 

[Pirate's Son]

I've had my T/C .54 Renegade since 1981, when I received the kit for Xmas. I've been "blessed" to hunt with my smoke pole in a lot of soggy places over the years. I've had issues with damp No 11's and switched to Musket caps when I moved to seriously soggy SE Alaska. They always fire.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've had my T/C .54 Renegade since 1981, when I received the kit for Xmas. I've been "blessed" to hunt with my smoke pole in a lot of soggy places over the years. I've had issues with damp No 11's and switched to Musket caps when I moved to seriously soggy SE Alaska. They always fire.

My best buddy just converted his SxS from #11 to musket caps. His son does ACW living history and has a boat load of them, so he figured might as well use those instead.

LD

 

[Patched]

You may do yer own thang. On that we can agree.

I am and will be eternally grateful for having received your permission to use musket cap nipples on the Hawken rifles I built…..the visible musket nipple under the hammer clearly detracts from the appearance of this gun, negating any authentic resemblance to a gun of the Hawken era In both appearance and function…(the Hawken police have busted me many times…I’m a repeat offender.)

 

[wganz]

I agree. Also, Val Forgett Jr. of Navy Arms, who would have had access to anything and everything muzzleloader related, insisted on musket caps for his famous African expedition for the same reason. His endorsement outweighs anything I could say.

And this is why I got a Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter musket.

 

[Bob K]

My personal experience, and my main reason for using musket caps, is that just like the posters above, I find them easier to handle. It's not a major issue on the range, but when I climb into a deer stand in the dark and it's 20 degrees, I'd rather not have to fiddle with a #11.

Anecdotally, though, I'll offer this story: I was hunting with my brother in law a few years back. I had my normal hunting rifle (TC with musket caps and real powder), and he had a TC with the #11 cap and Pyrodex. Our stands were a couple hundred yards apart. A little after sunrise I heard two caps pop. He was sighted in on a buck and had a misfire, then recapped and had a second misfire before the buck stared at him and walked off. I suspect that he didn't heed my advice and left a little oil in the breech area when he cleaned the rifle last. He popped two more caps trying to unload it with no success. I swapped my nipple into his rifle and the first musket cap sent it downrange. That's not a scientific test, and it's very possible that the next #11 could have done the same, but it sold me on musket caps for hunting. I feel like it's a little extra insurance in adverse conditions. Plus they're easier to handle and I bought a case of them.