Muzzle Filing Worked

[Britsmoothy]

Like this picture.


Looks terrible don't it!

B :rotf:

 

[azmntman]

"Why I've seen prettier barrels in the local pawn shop and never did stop to ask the price" :rotf:

Old family joke :youcrazy:

Looking good Brother Brit :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

That gun shot to high.
Funny thing is as I swung it on a fast right to left pheasant the other week I paid absolutely no attention to the not very square muzzle, had I been I may of not seen it rise

B.

 

[M. De Land]

Yes ,it does, matter of fact! Imagine it next to another one, but if your happy ............. OK.

 

[Tinker2]

I have installed barrel liners with solder, sweating the inserts in place.

On some liners I sometimes epoxy them in place.

Wow, you hot blue double barrels? I'm impressed.

We were forbidden from trying that in our shop even before one of our guys tried it and the barrels did come apart and the solder ruined the bath.

Gus

Gus, and for good reason it is forbidden.
The way I do it is a flash blue or flash rust blue. If you do it wrong the barrels will come apart.
It is also quite dangerous. If you do it right you will get a steam explosion in the salts.
So yea, don’t try it, if you must try PM me first.

We were taught to raise dents

That’s one of the jobs I don’t like too
If the dent has been there a long time and still been shot, a lot, it can crack when you raise it.

At the end of WW II in Germany the US confiscated all of the civilian guns they found.
The ones the officers did not take were piled in the road and drove over with tanks.
After they were mashed by the tanks some of the troops dug some out of the heap and kept them.

Anyways that’s the story I got from the ex- soldier.
He brought in what had been a nice Austrian double barrel 16 gage, mashed.
Trust me if this guy hadn’t been a friend of my dad I would not have touched it.
But any who, yes I know how to remove dents, re-solder and straighten barrels also.



William Alexander

 

[In Over My Head]

The only way I know of to prove this is to test both barrels close in say 5 yards and again at perhaps 35-40 yards.

I maintain that the muzzles are in close enough proximity to know where they pattern "close in". I'm sure if you pattern them really close in, as in right at the muzzle, you will find them patterning exactly side by side. If they are patterning together at a distance they have been following a parallel path all along! Or at least something very close to parallel. What other path could the shot column possibly have taken?

 

[denster]

I am going to have to agree with MD here. Filing a shotgun muzzle out of square is not going to effect the direction of the shot charge in any appreciable degree. The theory that it will is based on the assumption that the gasses are released earlier from the filed area and thereby directing the charge more in that direction. The flaw to this that the shot string has already left the barrel prior to the gas which is behind the wad column.
Before anyone says I should experiment first. I have done so. While I would never try it with shot I did try it with slugs in an attempt to regulate a double barrel 12Ga. on the off chance that the gasses acting on the base of a solid projectile might actually result in some redirection. Failure! Significant filing resulted in no redirection from that of a square muzzle.
A few things that lost folks are not aware of. Shooting a side by side shotgun or double rifle for that matter can be materially affected by shooting position. With side by sides the shooter must be squared to the target. The reason for this is that the forces resisting recoil must be equal for both barrels. If you stand quartering the target the left barrel is going to be considerably off from the right. The reason for this is because the centerline of the bores are off set left and right of the centerline of the gun. When the right barrel is fired the muzzle will be up and right of it's pre firing position similarly the left barrel will be up and left. To compensate for this the barrels on side by sides are parallel at the breech and then start to converge towards the centerline of the gun at about the point of the fore end hanger. When the shooter is squared to the target the resistance to recoil is equal for both barrels but when the shooter is quartered or more to the target the resistance to recoil is significantly different.
The object of course as MD stated is to have both barrels release their charges as close to a parallel as possible.
An interesting point is that while double rifles are regulated double shotguns are not. I'm sure that statement is going to start an argument. However double shotguns are layed up to certain formulas based on the gauge and weight of the firearm and the makers idea of what works best. As a general rule if you were to put laser pointers in the muzzles of several doubles you would find the beams converging and crossing from 10 to 18 yards out from the muzzles. The previous statements by the way apply to everything from Hollands and Purdys to Stevens and Rossi.

 

[larry wv]

It works for me. :grin:

 

[Britsmoothy]

I am going to have to agree with MD here. Filing a shotgun muzzle out of square is not going to effect the direction of the shot charge in any appreciable degree. The theory that it will is based on the assumption that the gasses are released earlier from the filed area and thereby directing the charge more in that direction. The flaw to this that the shot string has already left the barrel prior to the gas which is behind the wad column.
Before anyone says I should experiment first. I have done so. While I would never try it with shot I did try it with slugs in an attempt to regulate a double barrel 12Ga. on the off chance that the gasses acting on the base of a solid projectile might actually result in some redirection. Failure! Significant filing resulted in no redirection from that of a square muzzle.
A few things that lost folks are not aware of. Shooting a side by side shotgun or double rifle for that matter can be materially affected by shooting position. With side by sides the shooter must be squared to the target. The reason for this is that the forces resisting recoil must be equal for both barrels. If you stand quartering the target the left barrel is going to be considerably off from the right. The reason for this is because the centerline of the bores are off set left and right of the centerline of the gun. When the right barrel is fired the muzzle will be up and right of it's pre firing position similarly the left barrel will be up and left. To compensate for this the barrels on side by sides are parallel at the breech and then start to converge towards the centerline of the gun at about the point of the fore end hanger. When the shooter is squared to the target the resistance to recoil is equal for both barrels but when the shooter is quartered or more to the target the resistance to recoil is significantly different.
The object of course as MD stated is to have both barrels release their charges as close to a parallel as possible.
An interesting point is that while double rifles are regulated double shotguns are not. I'm sure that statement is going to start an argument. However double shotguns are layed up to certain formulas based on the gauge and weight of the firearm and the makers idea of what works best. As a general rule if you were to put laser pointers in the muzzles of several doubles you would find the beams converging and crossing from 10 to 18 yards out from the muzzles. The previous statements by the way apply to everything from Hollands and Purdys to Stevens and Rossi.

Oh boy

You rote all that based on an assumption .

Shot is not a solid slug it is fluid and it itself is steered/influenced, not by gasses.

Go and try it with your test piece with shot and report back.

B.

 

[denster]

The only assumption in all that I wrote was that if the theory that the gases exiting differentially due to the filing of the muzzle was what redirected the shot string it would not be possible as the shot had left the barrel prior to the gasses which were behind the wad column. That theory is what I have seen stated in numerous articles I have read on the subject over the years.
I would be interested to hear your reasoning for why you believe it works.
Everything else I wrote is fact not supposition.

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: Theory? I would ask about ACTUAL results. For some it appears this has moved successfully WAYYY past the theory stage?

 

[coloradoclyde]

I would be interested to hear your reasoning for why you believe it works.

He doesn't "believe" it works...It is observable, testable, and repeatable.

 

[denster]

He says he has done it and it works for him therefor he believes it works. My question is what reasoning does he have for why it works.
It would also be interesting to know how much of a correction has he been able to make and at what range with how much removed.

 

[azmntman]

He says he has done it and it works for him therefor he believes it works. My question is what reasoning does he have for why it works.

Cuz it worked? :idunno:

It would also be interesting to know how much of a correction has he been able to make and at what range with how much removed.

Now were getting some where. Good question. :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

He says he has done it and it works for him therefor he believes it works. My question is what reasoning does he have for why it works.

Cuz it worked? :idunno:

It would also be interesting to know how much of a correction has he been able to make and at what range with how much removed.

Now were getting some where. Good question. :thumbsup:

Kind of but no as I don't keep records as I ain't that anal about it all.
As I have said before, it is not rocket science or voodoo.

I aim for about .030"-.040" for approx 8"-10" shift @ 30yards.

I sincerely suggest that the 'na' sayers just try it, I mean, just what in the world are some so frightened of :idunno:

B.

 

[Zonie]

I am going to have to agree with MD here. Filing a shotgun muzzle out of square is not going to effect the direction of the shot charge in any appreciable degree. The theory that it will is based on the assumption that the gasses are released earlier from the filed area and thereby directing the charge more in that direction. The flaw to this that the shot string has already left the barrel prior to the gas which is behind the wad column....

Your theory is interesting but, if filing a muzzle out of square with the bore has no effect at all on the direction of a slug or a column of shot then I think it is fair to ask, why do the gun experts feel that the muzzle of the barrel must be perpendicular to the bore?

It must be something other than aesthetics. :hmm:

I see on other sites, many experts talk about the squareness of the bore is important because if it is not, it can "destabilize the bullet".
Your experiment seems to be at odds with this line of thinking.

Besides, we are talking in this topic about a column of shot, not a bullet.

 

[Artificer]

Wow, you hot blue double barrels? I'm impressed.

We were forbidden from trying that in our shop even before one of our guys tried it and the barrels did come apart and the solder ruined the bath.

Gus

Gus, and for good reason it is forbidden.
The way I do it is a flash blue or flash rust blue. If you do it wrong the barrels will come apart.
It is also quite dangerous. If you do it right you will get a steam explosion in the salts.
So yea, don’t try it, if you must try PM me first.

William Alexander

Thank you very much for the information and the offer, but that's plenty of information for me not to try it and use rust bluing instead.

Gus

 

[Tinker2]

My pleasure





William

 

[Tinker2]

I see on other sites, many experts talk about the squareness of the bore is important because if it is not, it can "destabilize the bullet".
Your experiment seems to be at odds with this line of thinking.

Besides, we are talking in this topic about a column of shot, not a bullet.

This has been an interesting topic op:

I won’t go into doing it on rifles other than you can.


There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / than are dreamt of.

Reference:
Hamlet, by William Shakespeare


:wink:
William

 

[Black Hand]

The only assumption in all that I wrote was that if the theory that the gases exiting differentially due to the filing of the muzzle was what redirected the shot string it would not be possible as the shot had left the barrel prior to the gasses which were behind the wad column. That theory is what I have seen stated in numerous articles I have read on the subject over the years.
I would be interested to hear your reasoning for why you believe it works.
Everything else I wrote is fact not supposition.

If someone presents data that contradicts a hypothesis, then the hypothesis must be re-examined. In this particular case, your "theory" (more appropriately hypothesis) has been shown shown to be incorrect by testing.

You can deny all you wish and keep saying "the theory says it doesn't work", but the data indicates it does. I will take tangible, repeatable and measurable data over someones "theory" any day. Anyone can have a "theory" - now do the testing to show it is supported...