Muzzle UP or Muzzle DOWN?

[rafterob]

I sure would like to hear the shooter's personal anecdote on this incident.

 

[meanmike8665]

Thanks for pointing out you should not be caring a loaded firearm from station to station. CC if the brush and over growth is so bad something might catch you probably shouldn't be shooting in that environment.

Michael

 

[smo]

The woods walks I have shot, the group walks to the next station after everyone has fired.

Upon arriving at the station you can load , but not prime.

When you step to the line with the muzzle down range you can prime and fire.

After firing , swabbing of the bore is allowed .

:nono:
But no reloading until everyone arrives at the next station.

Muzzle control is up to each individual , Always in a safe direction .

Most places have a range officer who may or may not stay with the group.

The Group assist the range officer in his absence in assuring everyone goes by the rules.

 

[Cowboy]

The woods walks I have shot, the group walks to the next station after everyone has fired.

Upon arriving at the station you can load , but not prime.

When you step to the line with the muzzle down range you can prime and fire.

After firing , swabbing of the bore is allowed .

:nono:
But no reloading until everyone arrives at the next station.

Muzzle control is up to each individual , Always in a safe direction .

Most places have a range officer who may or may not stay with the group.

The Group assist the range officer in his absence in assuring everyone goes by the rules.

BINGO! That's exactly how we do it word for word!! With that being said it brings up what actually happened then?

FACT: The shooter claimed that he had fully seated the ball. He assumes that he must had accidentally poked the end of his barrel in the mud while standing around at the shooting station waiting for his turn to shoot?

I don't know? I wasn't in his group. :idunno:

No one else in that group to include the score keeper noticed any unsafe practice's.

In closing, Safety is paramount at this woods walk. The gracious people who owns this property are highly experienced NMLRA insructor's with decades of knowledge and experience. Only a select group are invited twice a year to shoot here.

It was very muddy and wet that day. Muddy wet slush and loose mud was everywhere! On the trail and off. The condition's were wet,cold,and muddy.

The other shooter's in that group are also highly experienced and safety conscious people as well! They saw no violation's with safety issue's.

IN CONCLUSION:

With all this said and knowing the family that puts this event on, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he did load at the shooting station that he was to shoot at. Wether he short started it and got distracted during the loading process and didn't fully seat the ball, I don't know? :idunno:

Wether he had the muzzle down and skimmed the mud lightly while waiting his turn, I don't know? :idunno:

All I do know is the end result of either one of these explanation's. Other's in that group suspected that it could have been either one of these mishap's.

As far as the rules in reference to muzzle down or muzzle up? Wether it's at the monthly BP shoot at the range or at our hosts private property. The rules are the same. You can have your muzzle up or down! As long as it's 100% safe for all involved! You load when told to. You step up to the line and prime and shoot when told to!!

As far as what happened that day was indeed very unfortunate. I don't think that no one will ever really know what actually happened?

It's by God's good grace that no one was injured that day!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Cowboy]

That Guy on the left in the top photo looks a little suspicious too me .... :blah: :rotf:

:thumbsup:

 

[smo]

I have shot at ranges where they had rules requiring muzzles up while behind the firing line.

It was probaly a good thing considering how many holes were shoot through the roof / cover there.... :youcrazy: :shake:

It’s amazing to watch how little some people know about handling guns..... dangerous , but amazing . :shocked2:

 

[meanmike8665]

Good for you. That is the way we have done it.
Michael

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thanks for pointing out you should not be caring a loaded firearm from station to station. CC if the brush and over growth is so bad something might catch you probably shouldn't be shooting in that environment.

Michael

Mike, I was just responding to the question, "muzzle up or muzzle down".

Not unloaded VS loaded........ :v

 

[meanmike8665]

I am sorry CC I am having trouble, muzzle up or down on a woods walk? That is the question, right? Also, seems to me his gun was loaded, right? It would be difficult to load a muzzle loader with a plugged barrel?

Michael

 

[coloradoclyde]

I agree.....I can't even tell which end of the gun blew up.....Not even sure if the cause was relevant to the title.

 

[meanmike8665]

Correct, up or down is still the question?

Michael

 

[Cowboy]

I agree.....I can't even tell which end of the gun blew up.....Not even sure if the cause was relevant to the title.

1. You're looking at the muzzle end which blew apart due to and obstruction approximately 1 to 2" down the barrel.

2. I agree that maybe I could've worded the topic differently.That being said I suspect the majority of the member's got the jest of what I was trying to get at by way of their comment's. Barrel obstruction and possible cause? Was also a way to learn from each other's opinions of do's and don't's as the way they see it.

3. No matter how I worded the topic, my main goal was that other's could possibly learn and take away something that could be useful down the road. I know that I surly did when it happened!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[meanmike8665]

Hi,
The obstruction was that far down the barrel, wow! I am glad you shared the story with us.

Thanks
Michael

 

[coloradoclyde]

Was this a winter shoot?
Was the gun jug choked?

Back in the 80's (I think) Remington had a batch of bad shotgun barrels on their 870's...The chokes would spilt in cold weather...

I wonder if something similar happened in this case. :hmm:

 

[Cowboy]

Clyde, Look at the very first post I made on this topic! rifled.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[jdw276]

Had a gentleman bulge his barrel. He claim he seated the ball all the way with his ramrod. I took his short starter, measured next to the barrel, end of shortstarter was where the bulge was.

I would use the gentleman's short starter, if it is longer than where the barrel blew, it is a mud obstruction, or otherwise.

But wow, the barrel I saw bulged with 70 grains 3f, the barrel was plugged pretty seriously with something to blow up and split like that. The bulged was a cva long rifle 45.

 

[Rifleman1776]

muzzle up or down on a woods walk?

OK. Even a woods walk is a "range". The shooter is not alone on the walk. There are other shooters, scorers, maybe just audience. Plus there are other stations, with other people, along the trail. Anything but muzzle up is unacceptable. A muzzle horizontal or down is dangerous.

 

[smo]

From looking back at the pics, the barrel blew apart at the nose cap.

It appears there’s a bulge just behind where a flush started ball would be.

If the person in question cuts at the muzzle , I would tend to believe that he loaded the powder,started the patched ball,
Cut the patch and started BS’ing with others in the group.

Never pushing the ball past the end of the bore..

Never driving the ball down the bore to the powder charge.

I have bumped a gun against the ground muzzle down before,
I really don’t see how it could happen without the shooter knowing it.

It goes back to maintaining control of the weapon & Gun Safety 101.

I have never hunted with anyone or been on a woods walk where everyone always kept the muzzle up at all times until ready too shoot.

Shooting from a bench on an organized line. Yes, muzzle up always until you reach the bench then the gun is pointed down range and primed to fire.

However guns where loaded behind the firing line at another table.

The Frizzen had to remain in the open position until you reached the bench to prime the gun.

This is just what I have experienced in my time at various ranges including the Friendship woods walk.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

depends on the use and territory. Muzzle down for hunting around here. Keeps rain, leaves and other crap from falling in the bore. At Line Matches for competition however, muzzle straight up at all times except on the firing line. Holding it down at an angle and negotiating a crowd and loading benches leaves too much opportunity to hit someone in the legs or feet, even with a ricochet off the ground. I understand that in some locations it may be safer to carry muzzle up, ie out on the open grasslands.

 

[azmntman]

muzzle up or down on a woods walk?

OK. Even a woods walk is a "range". The shooter is not alone on the walk. There are other shooters, scorers, maybe just audience. Plus there are other stations, with other people, along the trail. Anything but muzzle up is unacceptable. A muzzle horizontal or down is dangerous.

If one is walking with a loaded gun muzzle up and stumbles or trips I believe that muzzle will be coming down in an uncontrolled manner? As one struggles to not eat dirt "if" the gun fires while on the way down there is a chance it could hit another in the party. If same happens muzzle down the muzzle is ground in the dirt. :idunno: Thats what our AZGFD (in 1972) instructors told us anyway.

Still for me hard habit to break, I hunt mostly alone and/or on stand so not so much of an issue. If one of ya hunts with me I will be carrying muzzle down, you can carry anyway ya want. If ya trip I will be behind ya anyway (getting slower all the time :shake: )