Muzzleloader research project.50

[64Springer]

Ignore the trolls cluttering up this thread. They complain about everything, rarely, if ever provide positive information and on top of it all, are usually full of crapolla when they do comment.

I bet he closes his eyes when he walks by the meat counter too.

There is no "They" doing any complaining. Only my posts. So only one "Troll". If you're going to attack and insult someone you should grab your sack and call that person out by name. Don't hide behind the word They when there is no They.

I've gutted dozens of deer. Always ended up looking like Mel Gibson in The Patriot stream scene with his hatchet. So I don't need to close my eyes walking past the meat counter.

And there's a reason why very few gratuitous blood and gut pictures appear on most gun/hunting forums. Because most people believe it's unnecessary. A picture of the prey with the gun works for most people. Most people.

Captain Crapolla signing off.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Lol

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

For the Record I will not participate. Thank You.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Ignore the trolls cluttering up this thread. They complain about everything, rarely, if ever provide positive information and on top of it all, are usually full of crapolla when they do comment.

I bet he closes his eyes when he walks by the meat counter too.

This might even send him over the edge:

View attachment 219315

I would like to say..good job...

 

[longcruise]

My first ten years of ml hunting was all with a 50 and nearly all deer.

I killed deer with 60 to 90 gr goex 2f. The last deer kill with a 50 was 80 yards prb 60 gr Scheutzen 3f. One deer was killed with a maxi at 40 yards with 70 gr goex ff.

For all practical purposes there was never enough difference in the results to notice.

 

[TC Tommy]

My turn. You want to gather info on loads and calibers along with effect of results. I can help you with this.
You and I will go to the shooting range. I have ML's in calibers 32, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58, and a 62, with PRBs
to match. I'll bring the guns and powder, PRBs, caps, and flints, you bring the following.
1. 2 x chronographs (one up close for muzzle velocity and one close to the target for velocity drop)
2. 2 x high speed cameras and mounts
3. 2 x semi trailers full of ballistic jell blocks
4. personal ear protection
I'll even bring some leg bones to put into some of those blocks for shatter effect. I'll even swing by Bugger
Doodle and grab some ketchup packs for artistic values.
You'll get your info and I'll have one hell of a good time.

 

[chorizo]

Pushing it slower might give you better penetration. As counter intuitive as it is. If it expands slightly less it might pass through. If that fails I would cast slightly harder.

Yes, it might, but then I wouldn't get my external ballistics, 100 yard zero with less than 3" drop at 125 yards that I want. I am attempting to balance internal and external ballistics with terminal performance. Look at my parameters that I set: 3" group at 100 yard zero with less than 3" drop at 125 yards with greater than 1150 ftlbs of energy at 125 yards. And to top it off I am trying to get it in a carbine form factor of a 24"barrel

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Yes, it might, but then I wouldn't get my external ballistics, 100 yard zero with less than 3" drop at 125 yards that I want. I am attempting to balance internal and external ballistics with terminal performance. Look at my parameters that I set: 3" group at 100 yard zero with less than 3" drop at 125 yards with greater than 1150 ftlbs of energy at 125 yards. And to top it off I am trying to get it in a carbine form factor of a 24"barrel

Asking alot but definitely feasible

 

[chorizo]

I have two rounds, 450 and 485 grain, each in a separate gun that have achieved that so far. Both 54. Hopefully I can get one of my 58 cal to do that also, but likely with a 440 gr REAL bullet. yet to do accuracy testing on them and a couple of other guns also as weather and some surgeries got in the way, but both of those will be resolved shortly and testing can continue.

As a bit of an aside, only one gun, a 24" 54 cal weighs slightly over 7lbs. The rest all measure in at less than 7lbs making for an extremely packable gun for hunting. These aren't made for frequent shooting from the bench, so recoil, while stout, is on par with a 12 ga goose gun load and are plenty reasonable to shoot while hunting.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

I have two rounds, 450 and 485 grain, each in a separate gun that have achieved that so far. Both 54. Hopefully I can get one of my 58 cal to do that also, but likely with a 440 gr REAL bullet. yet to do accuracy testing on them and a couple of other guns also as weather and some surgeries got in the way, but both of those will be resolved shortly and testing can continue.

As a bit of an aside, only one gun, a 24" 54 cal weighs slightly over 7lbs. The rest all measure in at less than 7lbs making for an extremely packable gun for hunting. These aren't made for frequent shooting from the bench, so recoil, while stout, is on par with a 12 ga goose gun load and are plenty reasonable to shoot while hunting.

I'm ruining a 24in .50 hawkens flintlock 6.5lb total lol. Havent gotten around to giving it a spin but it will be ready by season.

 

[chorizo]

Shorter barrels like faster twist, heavier bullets, FFFg powder I have found.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

I'm ruining a 24in .50 hawkens flintlock 6.5lb total lol. Havent gotten around to giving it a spin but it will be ready by season.

*Running

 

[SDSmlf]

I'm posting this as a long term self project of mine. There Is all too much in fighting about this and that with no proof of anything. I ask that anyone who is willing to participate hear me out. Every animal you take with a muzzleloader should be documented here. Caliber distance shot distance ran projectile amount of powder and gun. This way we can form a bit of evidence to backup claims and help some newbies out. Please feel free to describe performance but no gore for the sake of keeping muzzleloading in a good light.

Curious as to what the you expect from this project? Do you have any parameters in mind? Small game? Medium sized game? Large or dangerous game? Are you looking for single projectile loads or shotgun also? Rifles? Smoothbores? Handguns?Limiting discussion to percussion, or open to flint (previous poster already suggested moving this topic from Percussion to the Hunting sub forum)? It’s potentially pretty large and rambling topic and would expect responses to be all over the place. Books have been written that don’t fully cover the topic. You may want to narrow the topic down a bit, it will wander enough on its own.

A place for ‘newbies’ to start may for example be a published book like The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual by Fadala. In his load data using a variety of guns, powders and projectiles available at the time, he summarizes in one easy to read source, specific bullets, powder charges, resulting energy and velocity at the muzzle and 100 yards along with recommended uses. Folks may not agree with the author, but the book is a good reference for head to head comparisons.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Curious as to what the you expect from this project? Do you have any parameters in mind? Small game? Medium sized game? Large or dangerous game? Are you looking for single projectile loads or shotgun also? Rifles? Smoothbores? Handguns?Limiting discussion to percussion, or open to flint (previous poster already suggested moving this topic from Percussion to the Hunting sub forum)? It’s potentially pretty large and rambling topic and would expect responses to be all over the place. Books have been written that don’t fully cover the topic. You may want to narrow the topic down a bit, it will wander enough on its own.

A place for ‘newbies’ to start may for example be a published book like The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual by Fadala. In his load data using a variety of guns, powders and projectiles available at the time, he summarizes in one easy to read source, specific bullets, powder charges, resulting energy and velocity at the muzzle and 100 yards along with recommended uses. Folks may not agree with the author, but the book is a good reference for head to head comparisons.

Less of beginners and more pepole like me. I have been doing black powder for 8 years so I have a good enough understand to talk. But plenty of room to learn.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Curious as to what the you expect from this project? Do you have any parameters in mind? Small game? Medium sized game? Large or dangerous game? Are you looking for single projectile loads or shotgun also? Rifles? Smoothbores? Handguns?Limiting discussion to percussion, or open to flint (previous poster already suggested moving this topic from Percussion to the Hunting sub forum)? It’s potentially pretty large and rambling topic and would expect responses to be all over the place. Books have been written that don’t fully cover the topic. You may want to narrow the topic down a bit, it will wander enough on its own.

A place for ‘newbies’ to start may for example be a published book like The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual by Fadala. In his load data using a variety of guns, powders and projectiles available at the time, he summarizes in one easy to read source, specific bullets, powder charges, resulting energy and velocity at the muzzle and 100 yards along with recommended uses. Folks may not agree with the author, but the book is a good reference for head to head comparisons.

In large part I'm looking for intelligent conversation on hunting with a muzzleloader. With no particular agenda. 2 days ago I would have thought hunting squirrels with a 50 is downright dumb. But a 50cal lead ball with 15 or 20gn going 600fps is actually quite effective from what I have heard.

 

[SDSmlf]

I'm ruining a 24in .50 hawkens flintlock 6.5lb total lol. Havent gotten around to giving it a spin but it will be ready by season.

Do you happen know to the twist rate and the depth of rifling of your gun? For hunting loads with a 24” barrel flintlock 3F blackpowder would be the best to start with in my opinion. 2F may not completely burn depending on bullet selection and charge. Subs will be tough to light up without a blackpowder kicker.

With 50, 54, 58 and 62 caliber roundball hunting guns I try and get an 85 yard zero with a hunting load that is less than 3” low at 100 yards and less than 3” high between 40-50 yards. And then I find that powderpuff/plinking/squirrel load that works at 25 yards without a sight adjustment. This basically means all my roundball hunting guns shoot ‘about’ to the same point of aim out 125 yards, my extreme limit for roundball hunting. I find the less you have to think about things when hunting the better. With 45 caliber roundball guns I may bring the zero in from 85 yards, depends…..

For shooting conicals, similar sight in, but really depends on the bullet and gun. For now, you only mentioned roundball and squirrels.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Do you happen know to the twist rate and the depth of rifling of your gun? For hunting loads with a 24” barrel flintlock 3F blackpowder would be the best to start with in my opinion. 2F may not completely burn depending on bullet selection and charge. Subs will be tough to light up without a blackpowder kicker.

With 50, 54, 58 and 62 caliber roundball hunting guns I try and get an 85 yard zero with a hunting load that is less than 3” low at 100 yards and less than 3” high between 40-50 yards. And then I find that powderpuff/plinking/squirrel load that works at 25 yards without a sight adjustment. This basically means all my roundball hunting guns shoot ‘about’ to the same point of aim out 125 yards, my extreme limit for roundball hunting. I find the less you have to think about things when hunting the better. With 45 caliber roundball guns I may bring the zero in from 85 yards, depends…..

For shooting conicals, similar sight in, but really depends on the bullet and gun. For now, you only mentioned roundball and squirrels.

1in 48. It has fairly deep rifling. But in my experience even deep rifling shoot round balls maxiballs or conical more than satisfactory In my TC hawken I use .490 ball with pellow ticking patch with bees wax and olive oil lube and 80gn of 3f. Or buffalo bullet maxi ballet 270gn with 90gn of 3f. Both do well hunting. I'll probably start somewhere around there for the new one.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Do you happen know to the twist rate and the depth of rifling of your gun? For hunting loads with a 24” barrel flintlock 3F blackpowder would be the best to start with in my opinion. 2F may not completely burn depending on bullet selection and charge. Subs will be tough to light up without a blackpowder kicker.

With 50, 54, 58 and 62 caliber roundball hunting guns I try and get an 85 yard zero with a hunting load that is less than 3” low at 100 yards and less than 3” high between 40-50 yards. And then I find that powderpuff/plinking/squirrel load that works at 25 yards without a sight adjustment. This basically means all my roundball hunting guns shoot ‘about’ to the same point of aim out 125 yards, my extreme limit for roundball hunting. I find the less you have to think about things when hunting the better. With 45 caliber roundball guns I may bring the zero in from 85 yards, depends…..

For shooting conicals, similar sight in, but really depends on the bullet and gun. For now, you only mentioned roundball and squirrels.

And as for squirrels I was just using that as an example. At one point I found it ludicrous to shoot a squirrel with a 50. But it is somthing that I found out by asking open ended questions.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Subs will be tough to light up without a blackpowder

Yep. I made this mistake first geting into flintlocks. Was using pyrodex in the barrel and goex in the pan would not light for the life of me. Switched to goex in the barrel and took 10 shots without a flash in the pan.

 

[Terrier]

but no gore for the sake of keeping muzzleloading in a good light.

annnnd, two posts in, there ya go.

...There Is all too much in fighting about this ...

and a half dozen posts into it, there ya go.

Lose. Lose, and lose some more. I'm afraid you're doomed.