Muzzleloader Value

[katsumushi]

Hello All,
My name is Frank from Florida and I am new here, but not new to BP arms.
I have a question for anyone that can help me...
Been looking at purchasing a NUMRICH Arms percussion .50 caliber rifle, 55 inches long. Need to know the actual value.
I have included pics, I would appreciate any help anyone can give me.

 

[katsumushi]

Barrel just says Numrich Arms West Hurley NY
I have no other data on rifle, just what the owner gave me.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Custom built, likely in the 1970's. Sorry, but value is whatever someone is asking or somebody else is willing to pay. What's the seller asking?

It's hard to judge completely from pictures but here's what I see:

The barrel may say Numrich Arms but the lock is a looks like a Siler percussion lock, all of the mounts appear to be better quality castings. The patchbox is nicely done and appears to have better than average engraving. The stock is custom work with decent carving, architecture and good inletting.

To really judge the architecture more pictures would be good....profile of each side from the front of the lock through the buttplate and a top down of the same. A full length would help too.

Hope that at least helped. Thanks for posting the pictures. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[George T.]

That is a pretty nice rifle. I agree that it looks like it was built around a Numrick barrel. It's pretty well done and if I really wanted it and the barrel's interior looks good I would probably pat in the $600 range. Geo. T.

 

[katsumushi]

JD,
He is asking $750 firm.

 

[katsumushi]

Geo, thanks for your help.

 

[katsumushi]

Here are more pics of rifle...

 

[gunner69skmc]

That gun was listed on Gunbroker and had an opening bid of $699 with no additional bids. I see that it is relisted again how can that be when there were no reserve and the one bid should have won the auction? I smell something here.... and it's not the smell of flowers. I personnaly don't think it is worth what's asked. Too bad you can't actually handle the gun and check it out yourself. It does look nice but "that" nice? Good Luck

 

[katsumushi]

Jack,
I was not aware it was re-listed...
I asked seller some questions and he never replied back, when asked if it was a good shoorter and if the barrel was in good shape.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I frequent Dixon's and a lot of shows and from what can be seen in the pictures, if it's what you want, the price is good....and it's likely you could negotiate and get it cheeper. You are not likely to get any gun built for that, then consider the engraving and all the other details.

These early reproductions are in a sort of renaissance right now and are being sought out by a niche group of collectors.

Before I jumped I would like to see pictures from the angles I indicated above. As stated, to bad you can't handle it.

A bad bore wouldn't scare me even at that price, but then I can replace it myself and have a few hanging in the rafters. Bobby Hoyt would rerifle it for under $100. Worse case, you can likely have a barrel pruchased and installed for you and still be in it for less than a $1K.

Price some "in the white" guns from some of the companies like TVM and Sitting Fox and you will likely find they will run you that much. Then you have to finish, engrave and carve it yourself or pay someone to do it.

Just some food for thought. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rafterob]

The opening bid is the one put in by the lister. So I guess nobody bid on it.

 

[Billnpatti]

From whayou are saying, it appears that the seller has placed a protective bid of $699 on it. In my opinion, based on the pictures you have posted, I'd say that it is worth $700. You also said that he has said that his bottom price is $750 but if the only bid is his protective bid of $699, you could bid $700 (or whatever the minimum advance is) and take it if there were no other bids. Even if you had to spend the money to have the bore refreshed, you would still have a good deal. Give it a shot, bid on it and see how you make out.

 

[jdkerstetter]

If the lock on this gun is a Siler as it appears to be, another nice thing is that it is an easy flintlock conversion. Doing so would likely raise the value even beyond the price of the parts involved.

Even if you haven't considered a flintlock yet....it's only a matter of time. :wink:

Just some more to consider. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[cynthialee]

If the lock on this gun is a Siler as it appears to be, another nice thing is that it is an easy flintlock conversion. Doing so would likely raise the value even beyond the price of the parts involved.

Even if you haven't considered a flintlock yet....it's only a matter of time. :wink:

Just some more to consider. Enjoy, J.D.

True, I been thinking about them alot.
But for the price of a decent lock, I can buy an entire percusion rifle. Flintlock makers aren't bringing in new shooters with thier afordable prices. I understand it takes alot of work to make a lock, but surely there has to be a way to make a somewhat mass-produced lock that is functional and affordable...

 

[Little Wattsy]

It would cost you more then $750.00 to make it IF you could make it that good.. It would cost you near $750.00 for a new production gun like the TC Hawkin...

I think $750.00 is plenty and I am not a fan of patch boxs BUT if you like it I would think its worth the $750.00.... :2

 

[jdkerstetter]

....But for the price of a decent lock, I can buy an entire percusion rifle. Flintlock makers aren't bringing in new shooters with thier afordable prices. I understand it takes alot of work to make a lock, but surely there has to be a way to make a somewhat mass-produced lock that is functional and affordable...

How do statments like this really add to this thread? Really? Perhaps you could post a new thread over in gun building and get an education on lock building.

The best production flintlocks are made by Chambers. Now, I'll admit it appears that they have just had a small price hike, but they will sell you any of their flintlocks for $145 (Jaeger $155) and back it forever. Considering the time and hand fitting that goes into these locks you will find no better bargain.

Furthermore, I contend you will not get much of a percussion rifle for $145. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

Its a Numrich barrel, the rest of the rifle is not a Numrich product. Numrich sold a lot of "entry level" ML barrels at one time. Siler lock. Looks like Davis set trigger. It is engraved but I don't know how well, the patchbox does not look too bad though from what I can see. Shaping and wood work is "ok" but nothing to brag on. The attempt at the scroll carved in front of the Patchbox is pretty poorly done "corners" in scrolls are a major no-no. Its not signed by the maker.
I have no idea how well the barrel is breeched and the drum installed so this is a worrisome point with me but none of the fatory mades are right either so this is a draw unless this rifle has a some unseen problem like the drum not being supported by the lock plate. If it was used with BP only and cleaned properly the bore is probably OK.
Its worth more than a TC since its a traditional rifle. But I would not want to pay much for it. Current market its 900 max. If it were at hand and was better than the photos show it might be worth 1500 or more. A good custom by a known maker is worth 3-7 times what a generic Kentucky like this one is worth.
There have been some really nice signed rifles sold at auction or private for 10%-20% of their actual value in the past year...

Dan

 

[katsumushi]

I want to thank you all for your great advice and help, think I will buy rifle.

 

[katsumushi]

Update.
Heard from owner and he says bore is in great condition, with no rust and rifling is crisp and clean.
I also got it for $699.00
When it arrives I will keep you all posted .
Thank you again for the help/advice

 

[jdkerstetter]

Congratulations. Enjoy your new gun, J.D.