Muzzleloader Value

[katsumushi]

Thank you JD, I appreciate.
Cant wait for it to get here and go shoot it.

 

[Stubert]

Good for you, Just the parts from Track would cost that much.

 

[katsumushi]

Dont know if this is the right place to post this, but here goes...
How can I change the percussion lock to flint lock?
Do I need to alter the pre-existing inletting to fit the flintlock?
What are the parts required and the steps to accomplish this?

 

[katsumushi]

Thanks Stubert

 

[hanshi]

We'll all be waiting for your post and evaluation. Good luck.

 

[jdkerstetter]

If it is indeed a Siler lock as it appears to be, that lock is still produced by Chambers (and others, but Chambers is the one to go with I.M.H.O.)

The lock comes in two sizes, small and large. Both are available in flint and percussion.

The change over entails buying a matching lock in flint. You remove the percussion lock and then remove the drum & nipple assembly. The drum is replaced with a vent liner with the same sized threads. Reinstall the lock and there you have it. Really nothing to it other than an hours work and about $160 in parts.

A hiccup you may run into is sometimes the vent liner needs to be trimmed if it is longer than the barrel wall is thick as it will protrude into the bore.

The only other problem I can think of is that there have beem some Siler knock-offs made using original casting to make the molds. These tend to be a little undersized. If that is the case you may have to open the inlet for the lock a bit. Probably not if my estimate of the guns age is correct....and even if I'm off it would be a rare occurance so the odds are in your favor.

Converting a gun originally built in flintlock with a vent liner to percussion can be more problematic as you can't always count on the drum lining up with the new lock. If it has the vent hole simply drilled, that's not a problem.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[54ball]

If it was mine, I would just enjoy it as percussion, at least for a little while.

There is not a thing wrong with a percussion longrifle. I shoot flint but sometimes I wish I had a percussion longrifle.

When and if you do a conversion,consider it permanent. The convertible concept is not a good one.

JD has told you right about making the conversion to flint. :thumbsup:

 

[katsumushi]

Great advice JD, you are very knowlegable and I appreciate you sharing you knowledge .
Hanshi and 54ball, thank you.
Will shoot it as is for a while.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....I shoot flint but sometimes I wish I had a percussion longrifle.

BLASPHEMY!!!!................ :slap:...... :haha:

When and if you do a conversion,consider it permanent. The convertible concept is not a good one.

Travis has a good point here. You can change it back again but it's not something that should be done as a regular practice as it can cause wear to the threads in the barrel and it is critical that the vent liner or drum fits well or they could be expelled when the rifle is fired.

Always think of the people standing to your right....no matter how far away they are.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[S.Kenton]

I've been following this thread now for some time..and In my honest opinion, I think ya got a good deal. You simply cannot build a rifle with the same hardware on it,then engrave it, for your purchase price.I very much like the look of the rifle as well as the engraving. When you get her I'd like to see some full length pics of her.

 

[MacRob46]

Frank...

I stumbled onto your post too late to warn you away from the rifle. It looks very nice and hopefully that is an actual Siler lock. The wood to metal fit also looks very good. However, Numrich Arms barrels are seldom very good. I have had three, one on a muzzle loader and two on the same No. 1 black powder Remington RB. None of them shot well. I think the problem with the muzzle loading barrel is shallow grooves. I still have the muzzle loader, which I built from a DGW kit while living in Montana in 1972. It never shot worth a darn. Later, with the help of a good friend, I converted the rifle to flint, using the same method discussed above but it still does not shoot well so it spends all its time in the gun safe. The first barrel on the RB was bored crooked. I could not get the gun to shoot to point of aim and (I was just starting out in black powder at the time) a friend of mine just looked down the bore from the breech end and discovered that it turned a corner about mid way down. I contacted Numrich Arms who told me to send it back and they would replace it. Took the old barrel off and sent it to them. SIX MONTHS later they sent a new one. This one was bored straight but the chamber was so rough I could barely get an empty case out of it. Also, because of the rough chamber the case could not move enough in the chamber when fired and so the primer would back out. I gave up and put it away until 2011 when I sent the whole gun to the late Dave Higginbotham in Texas who put on a new Green River barrel and did a lot of other good stuff to the action. I now have a fine gun. Maybe my experience is too limited to be critical but I have struck out with Numrich barrels three times out of three, which is not a good batting average. The nice thing is that your gun looks good and you can seldom find something that nice for less than a grand. If it does not shoot well maybe you can get the bore freshed out or, barring that, just replace it with something better. Any way, good luck with it and give us a range report when you can.

 

[katsumushi]

S.Kenton,
Thank you for the kind words.
I think I got a good deal.

 

[Col. Batguano]

There are some threads to that effect in the builders forum.

You'll need a vent liner matching the threads of the drum, and a new lock. The trick is getting the pan of the new lock to line up properly with the vent hole.

Get Track's catalog. All their parts are in there as full sized, and you may be able to tell from that.

 

[katsumushi]

Macrob46,
Thats a real bummer for sure.
What are the chances of 3 bad barrels in a row?...Sound like bad QC to me.
Good deal that you changed the barrel out and it fires better.
I am hoping mine shoots good but if not I'll change the barrel.
Staying positive on that.

 

[katsumushi]

Col.,
I will do that for sure.
TY for the advice

 

[steved]

Hey longcarbine52,

Nice pickup for all of the reasons already mentioned above. Looking forward to the range report.

 

[MacRob46]

Macrob46,
Thats a real bummer for sure.
What are the chances of 3 bad barrels in a row?...Sound like bad QC to me.
Good deal that you changed the barrel out and it fires better.
I am hoping mine shoots good but if not I'll change the barrel.
Staying positive on that.

With Numrich I think there is a pretty good chance of getting a bad barrel or at least one which is not up to the quality you want. They are/were cheaper (I think Numrich is out of the barrel business) than other brands which was one of the things which attracted me to the DGW kit as I was just a poor USAF SSGT in search of a muzzle loading rifle in 1972. Numrich, now The Gun Parts Corp., is an excellent source for all kinds of gun parts now so I will not be too harsh on them over all since I do buy other stuff from them from time to time. The Rolling Block was purchased in a pawn shop in 1973 for the munificent sum of $150. The rebarreling and action work by Dave ran about $1100. I picked up a Lee Shaver tang sight from the friend who helped me convert the muzzle loader to flint and bought a Lyman front sight for it. I am planning to restock it when I get time but the gun with the new barrel on a 100% original (except for the firing pin) action is probably worth about $2500 so I am ahead of the game. Best of luck with your new gun. It is mighty pretty!!!

 

[katsumushi]

Mac,
I agree with you having done some research on Numrich.
Yes, you are ahead of the game, and thats great.
Thank you

 

Mac,
I agree with you having done some research on Numrich.
Yes, you are ahead of the game, and thats great.
Thank you

I was a little surprised to read MacRob46’s comments on Numrich barrels.
Until I bought an old underhammer recently, I had never owned a rifle with a Numrich barrel so I can’t claim a lot of experience with them.
That said, the little that I’ve shot the one I have, it seems to shoot quite well. On top of that, I can’t recall ever hearing any negative comments as to accuracy with any of the old H&A/Numrich underhammers. A different style of rifle of course, but still a Numrich barrel.
T’was a time when the choice of barrels was pretty much limited to Douglas or Numrich. Douglas was probably the more popular of the two but both could be guilty of run out. Both could win matches too.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Numrich barrels aren't original to a Remington. Could it be that they are muzzleloader barrels that were adapted to a BP cartridge gun by the builder?

Could be the rifling isn't ideal for bullets if that's the case. If they are bullet barrels then it's a moot point.

As has been mentioned, there are a lot of Numrich barrels in service that shoot just fine.

No point in bursting anybody's bubble over gun that's already been purchased and yet to be shot.

Enjoy, J.D.