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Muzzleloader vs Modern

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While casting your own balls, making your own patches,in addition to getting pure lead at less than 1.00 lb and recovering your practice lead and buying powder by the case (All of which I do);rifles are much cheaper to shoot going black powder vs center fire. The reverse is true for shot guns. Even buying by the case black powder costs almost twice as much a lb and you use four times as much 75 grain/shot vs 18 grain smokeless. Caps $50 /thousand, primers 21.75/1000. Felt wads $9. for 500, plastic shot column/wads 7.35 for 500.(and often reusable ) Shot, the same for both. This is why I am shooting the smoke poles less at clay birds and joining the boys more often shooting modern shotguns. When we get five people shooting clays ( Two sons and two son-in-laws ) we can shoot up a lot of money in a hurry. Modern means more shots per buck on shooting shotguns.
 
There is a huge increase in centerfire ammunition prices & components recently, although it is beginning to start coming back down.
I've had .308 (7.62mm) quoted at over a dollar a round and .303 Brit at $1:50 at retail in recent months. :rotf: :youcrazy: :bull:

Not to bring politics into the thread but part of the reason is political, part supply & demand, part lack of availability caused by panic buying of very large quantities.

Those who stockpiled by buying cheap & stacking deep are still able to shoot modern for about $0.17 a pop, at least till the stocks run out, then they'll have to reload. :blah:
 
Ever since the modern ammo got so expensive (even reloading it myself it's not exactly what I call cheap, but I am a cheap VT yankee at heart), I've been mostly shooting my blackpowder guns. That's okay though; as much as I like my early Winchester 1894, my milsurps, my 1911, etc., it's hard to beat a flintlock rifle or a colt walker for fun. Even just loading them is more fun. :grin:
 
When you downsize to a .36 and shoot 000 and 31gr. of fffg. , price gets even better. Hours of shooting enjoyment per $ , ML's win! :bow:
 
I have fired my current hunting rifle exactly ten times between sighting in the scope and filling my tags. The reason? It costs me a little over a dollar every time I pull the trigger. My milsurp plinking rifle costs me under a quarter, so depending on what I find for powder and ball prices, I imagine the "historical" rifle will end up being cheaper. Plus, no fancy dies or press needed to reload, just a long, straight stick.
 
while we are comparing apples and oranges, I don't think its fair to compare Commercial Cartridge prices for new cartridges, to what we do with MLers. After all, we are in fact "reloading" the gun using the barrel instead of a brass casing each time we fire. A Brass case can be reloaded a couple of dozen times, and more depending on the caliber, and how the brass is treated by the shooter.

You can buy new brass in quantity for much less than what it costs you to buy new ammo. Yes, save the brass from the new cartridges, by all means. However, the brass costs so much less than new ammo, using the price for new ammo is a bit unfair. NO?

I have bought new brass, primers, powder, and then used cast lead bullets that use scavenged lead thatcost me nothing, to make up ammo for modern guns, at a cost of a few cents per round. It still costs me more to reload cartridge, however, simply because I have to pay retail prices for the primers, and they now cost much more than percussion caps, or flints. But, that " Expensive" reloading equipment " is quickly paid for by the savings you earn by reloading your ammo using the fired casings.

Years ago, when ammo was still half what it costs today, I was saving more than 80 cents per round when shooting reloads in my .45-70. My .30-06, even using purchased copper jacketed bullets still saved me more than 30 cents per round, reloading, over what it cost to buy new ammo back then.

I saved the most money, both in volume of ammo fired, and cost of individual reloads compared to new ammo costs shooting my handgun cartridges. It was this activity that paid for my reloading press and dies, and scale, etc. so quickly.

Whether you reload, or cast your lead balls and conicals for MLers is up to each individual, and depends on both your interest in the sport, and the available time you have to commit to these related activities. There is a lot of satisfaction knowing that you are taking game with a ball or bullet you cast, and, if you shoot cartridge guns, using ammo you reloaded gives added satisfaction that simply doesn't have a dollar value.

After you have done casting for awhile, or reloaded for years, all you can do is smile when you read posts from people who are afraid to take their locks out of their stocks, are afraid to cast lead balls for their guns, and are afraid to try to reload cartridge ammo, even when they have been shooting Real Black Powder for years in their muzzleloaders. It often doesn't dawn on people that they are "reloading" their gun every time the pour powder down the barrel and seat the next PRB on it. If you can do this kind of reloading, you certainly can reload cartridges. :idunno: :hmm: :hatsoff:
 
Patched Round Ball Commercial Cost of Shooting a Muzzleloader:

.490 round balls box of 100 = $13.95 = $ .14
.018 pillow-ticking pkg of 100 = 7.95 = $ .08
Goex 3Fg 72 grains can of 100 = 22.00 = $ .22
CCI #11 Mag caps tin of 100 = 6.95 = $ .07
#11 Nipple repl. Change at 100 = 3.00 = $ .03
.50 wonder-wads pkg of 100 = 7.95 = $ .08
Cleaning Patches pkg of 100 = 2.95 = $ .03
Brush& Worm repl. Change at 200 = 3.95 = $ .02
Lubes & Cleaners Change at 200 = 7.95 = $ .04
_______

$ .71
7% NJ Sales Tax .05
_______
$ .76

This figure does not represent costs associated with expenses such as water, soap, energy to heat the water, cost of range rod, repairs & maintainence to lock and/or rifle, brass polish for furniture cleaning, etc.

Substitute a 370 grain T/C Maxi-Ball per shot add $.46 (Box of 20 for $13.00 = $.65 each) $ .44
_______
$1.20

Not that Cheap! But the Experience is PRICELESS!!

I'm not complaining mind you, just shining the light of reality on the true equation.

Dave
 
I'm not complaining mind you, just shining the light of reality on the true equation.

One thing this thread has brought out is that everyone seems to have a different "true equation". :)

Take lubes and cleaners for instance. My cost to clean and maintain my modern rifles is higher that the ml guns. "Cleaners"? What are these steenking cleaners you speak of? My water bill ain't that high. :)

Do people really buy maxi balls?? :shocked2: Do people really shoot maxi balls? :barf: And what is this purchasing of cleaning patches all about?? :confused: They sell those? :shocked2:

Just yankin yer chain here ya know. :)
 
marmotslayer said:
I'm not complaining mind you, just shining the light of reality on the true equation.

One thing this thread has brought out is that everyone seems to have a different "true equation". :)

Take lubes and cleaners for instance. My cost to clean and maintain my modern rifles is higher that the ml guns. "Cleaners"? What are these steenking cleaners you speak of? My water bill ain't that high. :)

Do people really buy maxi balls?? :shocked2: Do people really shoot maxi balls? :barf: And what is this purchasing of cleaning patches all about?? :confused: They sell those? :shocked2:

Just yankin yer chain here ya know. :)

Yeah, I know!

Most folks forget to add what they've spent to "find stuff for nuthin"! Short story for an example: More than 25 years ago my Father-In-Law bragged to me how he drove over 600 miles looking for the perfect chandelier, and found it on SALE for less than $400. Then I pointed-out to him that the cost of the excursion to locate said sale was about $.25 per mile just in depreciation/wear & tear/insurance on the family car, and didn't yet figure-in the cost of the gas, tolls, and meals on the road. Then the equation made him angry when I reminded him that the very same item could have been had for $500 only 5 minutes away from the house, and he would have SAVED MONEY dropping the extra C-Note locally :shocked2: .

Needless to say, I didn't mention the chandelier after that :haha:

Everybody comes from different circumstances, with varying amounts of time to dedicate to finding stuff for nuthin. Me, I just have to pay for commercial stuff, including those Maxi's that can cut a playing card in half sideways :) :haha:

Dave
 
Me, I just have to pay for commercial stuff, including those Maxi's that can cut a playing card in half sideways

Hah! Then it is you paying that exorbitant price for maxi balls :shocked2: That's $65 bucks per 100. Your first 100 would pay for everything you need to cast your own including the mold. Once the equipment is paid for your costs will go way down.

We see a lot of posts here about where and how to get lead and how much it costs. It's all over the board (literally and figuratively :). I can go to my local metal recycler (3 miles away) and pick my own from a bin and pay .38 cents per pound. That means that for a bit over $2 in lead you can cast up 100 maxi balls! And, now you are assured of the quality and consistency. The ones you buy are swaged and each lot is not always swaged with the same dies. Different dies will produce variations in size and weight.

I used to think that a round ball could not be as effective cutting a card as a conical but by measuring the size of the cut by laying the cut card halves on top of an uncut card one sees that some of those cuts are less than a quarter of an inch in width. Can't be much of the ball doing the cutting for that size cut.

This is all choice of course and i respect yours. For the first four or five years of my ml shooting I shot only maxi balls for targets and hunting.
 
"Do people really shoot maxi balls?'

Yea, the ML world is not a perfect place but many more are trying the real thing every day, and stepping away from the wannabe ranks.
 
I shoot both PRB's and Maxi's and have won competitions using both in the same $300.00 rifle! It depends upon what I feel like doing on any given day, as well as the ambient temperature: My rifle doesn't shoot Maxi's well in the cold :( .

I didn't want to ignite the hailstorm of :bull: in regards to what is the "right" projectile to use in my percussion rifle. That was not my intention in pointing-out the actual cost of my hobby. I merely typed it for informational purposes, and there is no need to try to convince me to never shoot them again, for I simply won't listen, as I'm having too much fun putting several of them (370 grain T/C Maxi-Balls) through the same darn hole at 50 yards off-hand and tying the Club record ML score doing it!

Nor will I ever cast lead--my Dr. told me not to! I shoot several disciplines, most of the modern pistol persuasion, sometimes indoors, and I'm exposed to lead dust quite often. You see, I'm a bit of a Shootist, as I also shoot sporting clays, trap, USPSA, IDPA, Bowling Pins, and hunt with a modern shotgun as well as a 10 ga SxS ML. My numbers aren't in the high range yet, and I'm going to keep them that way! I don't want some pinhead telling me that I can't shoot a match next month because I took-up casting to save money when everything else I shoot for every other gun I own is factory made rounds!

I appreciate your kind-hearted consideration for my pocket-book, and if we ever meet (at Dixon's, maybe) I'll buy you a lemonade! :) :haha:

My apologies if I was a little too blunt or appear a little stuck-up--that's not my intention either :haha: , I just want to shoot every chance I get since my heart attack. Time being what it is, I'd have to give up some of my shooting if I started reloading and casting, that's all.

Sincerely,

Dave
 
Now do a comparison with our kind of muzzleloader vs an inline bet ours are really cheap then.
 
armakiller said:
Now do a comparison with our kind of muzzleloader vs an inline bet ours are really cheap then.
You aren't trying to get me in trouble are you?
We aren't supposed to talk about one of the things I priced.

Based on the idea that the shooter wants to use the best stuff, I went shopping for things that are used in those new kind of things and got the following prices

348 grain bullet = $28/20 = $1.40
T 7 pellets = $30/100 = $0.30 X 3 = $0.90 (150 grain load of course)
Winchester triple Se7en 209 primer = $10/100 = $0.10

TOTAL = $2.40 PER SHOT.

The price for our .50 cal roundball percussion gun stays the same because the powder price I listed above represents Swiss powder.

TOTAL = $0.53 PER SHOT :rotf:
 
pyrodex RS - $17
CCI 209 primers - $4 per 100
360gr minie balls that i cast myself with free lead..... How much fuel does the coleman stove hold? :haha:

For hunting though i go high class with all of my muzzys.
 
I didn't want to ignite the hailstorm of in regards to what is the "right" projectile to use in my percussion rifle.

Nor was I. I don't know who you are quoting when you make reference to the "right" projectile.
 
Thats why the few times I've seen x@#$ at the range they only shoot about 10 times,while I'm shooting about 30 times and having 3x as much fun.Then they complain about hard it is to clean!never ceases to amaze me.
 
"I don't know who you are quoting when you make reference to the "right" projectile.'

Given a type of ML and the time period it was most prevelant in use, finding the right projectile would not be particularly difficult.
 

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