Muzzleloading Future

[HellBound]

T/C ends sidehammer production. Fewer models available from most manufacturers. Parts harder to locate.

Is muzzeloading [rifles,smooths & pistols]
expanding or contracting?

How does the poor economy effect ML?

How do restrictive laws effect ML?

What about all the boomers?

Is a ML a good investment?

 

[Jimkennedy]

She'll shine again

 

[George T.]

Well here is free of charge my two cents. Let me start by saying that in my eyes the modern MLR's shouls have never been allowed. If traditionak MLR's were required to take advantage of the special seasons we would see a huge jump in production.

Next the community has not reached out to include new blood on the whole. The younger generation is not prone to do things the hard way. Many young people today have not seen a Davie Crockett Disney program. Clubs put restrictions in place as to dress etc that along with the burden of gun cost , powder and ball and cleaning and loading products makes the initial expence a bugger.

The boomers are dying off at a alarming rate. When you look at the National MLR association site there is a piece that their average members age is 60+. One good thing is that I bet our life span is above average.

Is a MLR or pistol a good investment. Not if your looking to double your money. I bought mine because I like shooting them. I like the way they look and feel. I bought mine for my enjoyment for the time I have left. To me that is a good investment. Heck saving accounts are paying less than 1 % so it's not hard to equal that.

Now you didn't ask but! If you look at Dixies site there are still a lot of black powder guns being made. Some are pretty pricy but some are well made and not all that bad a bargin. The custom rifle makers that are still around charge a pretty penny but they are working cheap at that! Traditions has several firearms in the T/C price range and there is always gun broker! Geo. T.

 

[cynthialee]

My guess is that as the restrictions on modern guns tighten you will see more folks turn to BP.
BP rifles, shotguns and pistols will never be a military threat and the attitude amongst most folks is that they are quaint curiosities.
So those two items add up to us likely being able to keep our BP guns.

So if we get to keep our BP guns and the governments are taking away modern guns the logical result will be more people geting into BP. We see a similar action/reaction in fellons like G Gordon Liddy arming themselves with BP as they are not allowed to own modern guns.

 

[necchi]

Don't you have like 40 T/C's?

 

[M. De Land]

No,if the government gets the other guns you won't be keeping your black powder guns either let alone having anything to shoot in them.
The second amendment is the only thing that keeps the rest of amendments intacted and it was to protect us from our own government, had nothing to do with hunting or sport shooting. MD

 

[outbackzack]

A Hollywood blockbuster involving traditional bp firearms will renew the interest for a while, and hipster youth will take it up in droves to be cool--some will stick with it, some wont. I bought my first bp long gun shortly after seeing The Last of The Mohicans in the early 90's. My brother also bought one around the same time. His hangs on a wall, unfired in over 20 years, I have since bought or received as gifts three more, all of which I shoot.

It has always been, and always will be a small community, and a lot of the members of the community are by nature contrary, private, and some of us are downright anti-social in ways, which makes it hard to pin down hard numbers of enthusiasts.

 

[Vaino]

The single most obvious "sign" of decreasing interest in Mling....all the "old guys". I belong to a "mainly CF" gun club and every Wednesday AM a few MLing shooters get together...I stopped going because of the rancor and contrariness displayed by some attendees. Can't imagine any young people getting involved w/ these guys. There are many other reasons for the decreasing interest in MLing...many young people are disinterested in history and it's "romance" because...too many other modern diversions which weren't present years ago.....Fred

 

[BrownBear]

One other thing I see, and it stretches waaaaaaay beyond muzzleloaders. Interest and participation in any craft or do-it-yourself approach is dying off. Not enough young folks. Doesn't matter if you're talking fine carpentry, quilting, ammunition reloading, even fly tying to a lesser degree. Since muzzleloading has so much do--it-yourself built in, and the more the better, the younger generation is having trouble relating.

Here's the perfect example. I was on an extended photo trip with some 30-somethings, and one of them gave me a little grief about my worn out boots. They were even coming unsewed in places. That evening I dragged out my Handystitcher and repaired them.

Those folks threw fits! Not a one of them was interested, or could believe I'd stoop to such a thing. Every one said it wasn't worth it, and that I should just quit being cheap and go buy some more boots.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

There out there, if TML wants more shooters, there 11-12 there dad is not around ( or dose not shoot/hunt) they want to shoot, hunt, learn. My parents were divorced, while my dad did shoot, he did not camp or hunt. I was one of these kids.

 

[mattybock]

It's not just expanding, it's exploding. I was at the range a while back and there were a gaggle of teenagers fiddling with a flintlock. I was happy as heck to see that. They were having a good time with it too. I think it's due to pirates of the carribean or les miserables. Pop culture is booming with boom sticks.
With economics, shooting BP can be cheaper than shooting metallic ammo. Regular ammo is sky high right now, even for reloading for supplies. I pick up free ammo on the road side in the form of old tire weights. But the rising cost of power and caps/flint is evening out the playing field.

Smoke poles can be a good investment if the gun is investment quality to begin with. There are a bunch of lower quality guns that will never go up in value, this is true regardless if the gun is a front stuffer or a metallic ammo user.

 

It's not just expanding, it's exploding...
Pop culture is booming with boom sticks.

In my opinion, you have this backwards.

 

[Hawgeye]

In my opinion, muzzleloading in general is somewhat on the rise. Traditional enthusiasts are not. The unmentionable weapons are easier to use, more familiar to the casual shooter and more retailers carry the hardware and accessories needed for their use. In my aea there is one outlet that carries any kind of traditional supplies and the little they stock does not include black powder. A powder resupply for me is a 750 mile round trip. I've tried on more than several occaisions to get the local group to sponser youth shoots geared toward traditional guns but have met with much resistance. I always offer shots to anyone who shows an interest in what I'm shooting at the range but it's difficult to explain the lure of traditional guns to those who expect immediate positive results with a minimum of effort or thought. Unless we are proactive in attracting new enthusiasts, the staus quo will only get worse. Retailers will eventually discontinue the traditional offerings in favor of the more profitable popular systems. Not sure where the answer lies, but for traditional shooting to continue to survive it has to come down to finding and recruiting dedicated younger shooters.

 

[Moose Guide]

If you want to see this sport boom, forget the HC/PC(it makes for too many rules and grumpy teachers), just take the neighbourhood kids shooting. If they stay with shooting black powder, they will naturaly gravitate to the historical part of the sport but being stiff and grumpy won't attract anyone! (you may be able to stay HC/PC and not seem grumpy but many can not)

 

[FishDFly]

Yep

 

[FishDFly]

T/C ends sidehammer production. Fewer models available from most manufacturers. Parts harder to locate.

Is muzzeloading [rifles,smooths & pistols]
expanding or contracting?

How does the poor economy effect ML?

How do restrictive laws effect ML?

What about all the boomers?

Is a ML a good investment?

1. Contracting
2. Poor economy, no disposable dollars to spend
on guns, powder, range fees, gas, etc.
3. Regulations, where do folks buy powder?? No
powder, no shooting.
4. Boomers are dieing off.
5. Custom depends on the builder, factory built,
no

 

[dvanbramer88]

I'm new to muzzleloading this year. And I can say I'm really into it. I love the feel and the way my rifle handles compared too my other CF guns. I want to get into the PC/HC side of it. For me, I found the romance of history and tradition. I started hunting with a rifle when I was 12 because it was easier and I couldn't draw a 35# bow yet. (PA state minimum) Ever since my first archery season and my first deer harvested with a bow, I've been hooked on Archery hunting. I like the skill and form required. The only way you become consistent and accurate with a bow is to shoot it and learn your weapon. Same thing applies with the ML. point of impact is different from point of aim, and it varies with the load. The only way to get good at it is to learn and shoot the rifle. I have other rifles that anyone can pick up out of the box and the iron sights are dead on.

I've always been a fan of the bare-bones and usually cheaper way of doing things. You don't need a 600 dollar gun to enjoy shooting or to kill deer. My first rifle was a Rossi single shot .243 that I killed deer with,than a pump shotgun, than I bought a cheap semi-auto .22, than I bought my mosin for $150. The most money I ever spent on a firearm was ~300 for my 870. I've always put more emphases on the skill set than equipment. No gadget or piece of equipment will make you a better shooter/hunter/outdoors-man. The only thing that will is practice and experience.

I don't like the modern inline ML's. I feel like they take away from the hobby and they're only made to kill deer. No tradition or heritage behind it.

I'm also a fan of iron sights over scopes or red-dots. Scopes fail or get messed up. If your rings aren't tight your scope will not hold zero etc. Iron sights don't break, and even if they are off, they still work. It only takes a few shots to learn where your rifle hits and you adjust your hold over/kentucky windage.

This might surprise some of you coming from a 20 year old; but they "old way" isn't completely gone yet.

I look forward to killing a deer with the ML that I built and to process and preserve it and enjoy it. A whole process done by hand for the sake of doing.

 

[FishDFly]

This has been discussed a lot in lots of different places and no one has the definitive answer.

The NMLRA, TMLRA and lots of clubs are struggling to survive and a host of Clubs and Ranges have folded.

Some of the reasons for declining M/L shooters:

1. Shooters age, they are dieing off or physically cannot shoot any more or they can not
attend shoots because of their spouse’s health.

2. Shooters employment, in the past a lot of shooters were blue collar workers and could
make or repair what they needed, not today, most workers are not blue collar.

3. Dollars, shooting is expensive; guns, powder, caps/flints range, club fees, accessories, gasoline, etc. In the 1980’s it cost me $100 or so to shoot a day for 3 of us.

4. See above, lack of disposable dollars in this economy.

5. Family changes, most young folks are dedicated to their kid’s sports, not what the father wants to do.

6. Single mother parenting.

7. Living in a subdivision, not rural life.

8. Lack of places to shoot and lack of places who will allow B/P.

9. Most B/P shooters are at the empty nest stage of life, as more folks are raising their granchildern they do not have the time nor money for expanding hobbies.

This is a complex issue and there is no simple answer. For the most part it comes to one or two ideas:

1. Money, if there is a lack of disposable income in the house hold budget, what money is left is not going to B/P shooting.

2. Changes in family values
3. Instant gratitude provided by computers.

You can say that the future of shooting is youth, but until the parents put the dollars there, the youth cannot shoot nor get to shooting.

 

[Claude Mathis]

My current opinion (subject to change, if new information becomes available)”¦

Non-traditional muzzleloading may be on the rise.

Traditional muzzleloading is declining, as the current enthusiasts die off.

Young people have less of an interest in American history with each new generation. They are not interested in old, outdated firearms.

More and more avenues for young people to become exposed to firearms are disappearing. Eighty percent of the U.S. population lives in big cities. Most young people's exposure to firearms is TV and the Internet.

When I was a kid, the western movie was king, and the good guys wore a white hat and carried a gun. I watched Davy, Daniel, Hoppy, Gene and Roy and wanted to be like them. Who do kids watch today?

 

[FishDFly]

Claude has summed things up, not much else can be added to his note.

If I were smart, I would be rich and employed by Claude and the others in the M/L ranks to solve problems.

Hopefully, M/L will survive.