Muzzleloading Future

[necchi]

The membership in NMLRA has been on a continual decline for several years.

And part of it is some people just don't like the NMLRA.
There is/are alot of events that happen without being sanctioned by that outfit.
Some of our Territorial NMLRA leadership people are "elitist" types, or at least think themselves to be, and have put off many folks.

Not sayin their all bad all over, but after years of membership I got my RO and put in my time as requested, the way those folks acted and spoke of people that were NMLRA members but not in their "Fold" had me dropping membership pronto.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hmmmm...., well I actually think we have conflicting data, so really cannot tell.

When I started muzzleloader shooting in 1976, there were very few custom and semi-custom makers. Their numbers have increased the past four decades. Muzzleloaders were all but dead in the 1950's.

The NMLRA has declining membership, but why is membership in that group an indicator of overall enthusiasm for the use of muzzleloaders? I haven't been a member for years because I never went to NMLRA matches, which left the magazine as the only reason for me to be a member..., and the magazine stopped having an appeal for me, so when I was in college I let it lapse.

Some argue that we should be more tolerant, and in so doing we'd see an increase in numbers...., yet we don't discuss inlines here, and those calling for more "tolerance" are not calling for us to open the forum for the inlines, and inlines are by far the largest growing segment of the muzzleloader community..., :grin:

Right now the economy is a mess, and as such the extra income that folks use to pursue pastimes is severely limited. Traditional rifles and guns aren't cheap. Hence the decline of folks going into the hobby, and I think all hobbies are on a decline.

Craftsmanship is actually on the rise. Twenty years ago there wasn't a glass blower in my community, now there is. You could buy old anvils for about $1 a pound if you wanted to try blacksmithing; now they are going for $3-$4 a pound used, and they are harder to find, so somebody is pounding on metal. On the other hand craft brewing all about died by 2000, but now is slowly coming back, while cooking seems to be an exploding fad. Small, craft dairies, New vinyards, and distilleries have sprung up as well.

So it's tough to say what is going on. A movie or two featuring black powder will probably help, just as there was a jump in 1992 with Last of The Mohicans. I think when we get more disposable income, we may see a positive change.

LD

 

[Palmetto Ed]

I belive our ranks will stay small.You can't just like MLing,you got to have a real love for it.Some of the younger generation will join us,but most of them will not. If the special MLing season didn't exist,most people who shoot inlines wouldn't bother buying any kind of muzzleloading firearms.You definitely not going to catch them hunting small game or game birds with MLers. We hunt all manner of game with Mlers.It's not the hunting and shooting,it's also the history that got us under its spell.I don't think the grave can cure our bug.

 

[Jason Lewis]

we're a niche group and always will be. hopefully someday we will grow into a bigger niche group. but like all things time will tell.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

CL, I'm still laughing :rotf: ....afraid to go in the woods....why that be where the critters are! Line from the movie "The Mountainmen" (there's something out here,course there's something out there,there's coons and deer and creatures of the night)...taint nothin to be afeared of, cept gett'n lost and that will clear up with the first crik or road you cross! Course now I wouldn't be a squaken like a chicken in them woods or you mite end up as dinner for the local mt. lion or bear! The best way to get acclimated is to go into the woods after midnight and stay till the sun comes up...fears all gone...if'n you survives! :stir:

 

[Palmetto Ed]

Hopefully we'll grow.

 

[nchawkeye]

If we want to swell the ranks then get involved...

We need to reach out to the younger generation and share out knowledge...How many here have children??? How many have instilled their love of history to their children??? How many give historical talks to local schools or Scout troops???

I have 3 daughters, all know how to shoot, all had coonskin hats, watched Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone and all have guns that will be passed on to them...

I made a flinter back in the 80s, my middle daughter use to watch me work on it...I told her stories of our heritage while she watched...The payoff??? She was a NC Teaching Fellow, during the interview she told them that she had all these stories her dad had shared with her and she wanted to pass them on...She graduated from UNC with a degree in History, the NC Teaching Fellowship paid for half of it...She had her choice of Duke or Wake Forest for her Masters, free of charge...She is now teaching history and civics in Raleigh...

I have also given talks to local schools and Boy Scout troops locally...Here is a picture of me at a middle school that was on the front page of our local paper...

And here I am explaining how a flintlock works at a Rondevous of Boy Scout troops...Over 900 Scouts attended....

And finally, here is me and my grandson after an afternoon of watching Daniel Boone...He has his caplock gun along with a old powder horn I have and a leather pouch...He is 4 years old and if I'm still around I suspect he will continue to have an interest in history and flintlocks...

So, if you want the sport to grow, put something back...It will pay dividends....

 

[RevGeo]

Well, Cynthialee, we obviously are neighbors. I usually can find enough stuff at Black Sheep in Coeur D'Alene - until the recent buying panic - and the Cabelas in Post Falls is..well, it's Cabelas.
I live 40 miles from CD'A, 30 from Post Falls and 50 from Spokane, so I can appreciate your travel time and expense.
The point made about the folks shooting 'the guns of which we do not speak' is well taken.They are expanding in number. I think the folks interested in traditional muzzleloaders will continue to be a small, niche group - sort of like the musicians who play old time acoustic music or sports car buffs who prefer old English MGs and such. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with my previous post, but that's because I am optimistic about the future of traditional muzzleloading. At least as long as we are allowed to keep firearms at all.

 

I don't really care what the numbers of people involved in MLing are. I'm the only MLer hunter among all my friends and they're grateful that I've not tried to convert them...friendship before cause. If they had any interest in MLing, they would have acted on their own.....Fred

I agree. I don't understand why some people feel the need to evangelize their hobbies. Why the burning desire to want others to enjoy what they do? Wouldn't it be better to find people already interested in what you enjoy, rather than trying to "convert" people?

People know that muzzleloading is out there. If they had an interest - they'd be doing it.

Enjoy your avocations and let others enjoy theirs.

 

[RedFeather]

It's not just ML. My latest Izaak Walton League magazine urged members to get more people involved in hunting. The general culture has changed. Shooting sports, in their entirety, are on the decline. Maybe with so many people returning out of uniform to civilian life, things will turn around.

I will say one thing. ML is nothing like it was years ago. Compare an old Dixie catalog from the 70's to today's.

 

[HellBound]

Kardashian? I think its Turkish.

 

[Carteret Kid]

Kardashian? I think its Turkish.

It's English for Fembot.

 

[Carteret Kid]

I believe the future of smokepoleing will be driving by two factors; movies and low cost "starter" guns.

 

[RedFeather]

Show me a "low cost starter gun". I remember back when I got into this (early 70's), BP guns could be had for less than the cost of a Remington 700. My, how times have changed! Especially since the dollar went soft against the Lire. I watched prices in the catalogs climb and climb until some of the guns eclipsed smokeless models. The gun you refer to is now one of those cheaply made, flavor-of-the-month imported in-lines. Those who buy them are spoon fed their loads by some clerk in the gun department who was selling shoes last week and maybe sports equipment next week. Out goes the newbie with his "smoke pole", a box of 100/150 grain pellets, primers and pre-saboted pistol bullets, all in the hopes of duplicating his centerfire to take advantage of the BP only hunting season. He finds that his light-weight gun stocked with the latter day equivalent of express loads actually hurts to fire. Maybe he fills his ticket or maybe not, then he forgets to clean it when he returns home. Later on, he hauls the much neglected gun out to shine a light down the bore and sees so much red it looks like pictures from the Mars rover. "*&(%$%^!!!" So much for BP! He's going back to his no-brainer brass cartridge gun in the load that last week's clerk recommended. Sorry, but that just about sums up a LOT of "BP" hunters.

There's a lot of nostalgia and romance associated with the use of these arms. The more the culture moves away from that, the less "traditional" style guns you will see at the range or in the field. One blessing comes from this. Out of sight, out of mind. So far, the BP community has been kind of small and tightly knit. We don't make a lot of waves and don't stand out in a negative way. (Wave an M14 around and you get one response, hoist a flintlock and it's "Hey, cool!") Maybe less, in this respect, is a lot more.

 

[nkbj]

Kardashian? I think its Turkish.

Those were the bad guys on a short lived space opera.
I think muzzleloading will see renewed interest.

 

[oldude]

I have been makin smoke off and on since the mid 80's and have NEVER been to a rondy because most have a hc/pc requirement to particapate in most or all of the matches. You see the rules say that to camp in the INNER circle you must dress and camp hc/pc for a certain period otherwise you need to camp in the outer circle with the Tin tipi's, but then you see(even here) folks that are in the inner circle that have a sleeping cot and down bag hidden under hudson bay blankets or a coleman ice chest boxed in to look like a wooden chest but GOD forbid if you show up in a pair of painters pants dyed with rit dye and a shirt with machine stitchs.I shoot/hunt my caplocks wearing work boots as thats all I have worn for 40 years and moccs would cripple me up real bad, heck I can't even wear tenny shoes without gettin gimpped up real bad.
I don't like the new inline guns but if that floats your boat so be it,as long as your shootin bpowder/pyro at least your tring and maybe you'll make the switch to a sidelock.
Until this way of life relaxes a little and allows a beginner to join in without being HC/PC or razzed for having one of the starter/import guns its going to be tough to grow. Bent

 

[Dean2]

I have been makin smoke off and on since the mid 80's and have NEVER been to a rondy because most have a hc/pc requirement to particapate in most or all of the matches. You see the rules say that to camp in the INNER circle you must dress and camp hc/pc for a certain period otherwise you need to camp in the outer circle with the Tin tipi's, but then you see(even here) folks that are in the inner circle that have a sleeping cot and down bag hidden under hudson bay blankets or a coleman ice chest boxed in to look like a wooden chest but GOD forbid if you show up in a pair of painters pants dyed with rit dye and a shirt with machine stitchs.I shoot/hunt my caplocks wearing work boots as thats all I have worn for 40 years and moccs would cripple me up real bad, heck I can't even wear tenny shoes without gettin gimpped up real bad.
I don't like the new inline guns but if that floats your boat so be it,as long as your shootin bpowder/pyro at least your tring and maybe you'll make the switch to a sidelock.
Until this way of life relaxes a little and allows a beginner to join in without being HC/PC or razzed for having one of the starter/import guns its going to be tough to grow. Bent

I shoot muzzle loaders for the fun of it. There is no significant Rondies or re-enactment stuff up here. There are a number of groups that get together for matches, woods walks etc. They are all pretty relaxed on the rules of who can play. Despite that, the sport is not large here, even though shooting and hunting are big overall and growing rapidly. Not well known, but 30 million Canadians have 10 million plus guns and the sales of guns is still real strong.

I actually think the re-enactment stuff has driven the sport to be much larger in the U.S. than it would have otherwise. Can't speak to the whole inner circle thing but I have never found shooters in any discipline to be overly hard on newbies re equipment, knowledge or skill. We were all newbs at some time.

Only way to grow muzzle loading is to introduce everyone you know to it. It is amazing how many of my friends now have muzzle loaders after getting a chance to try mine out.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I have been makin smoke off and on since the mid 80's and have NEVER been to a rondy because most have a hc/pc requirement to particapate in most or all of the matches.

Until this way of life relaxes a little and allows a beginner to join in without being HC/PC or razzed for having one of the starter/import guns its going to be tough to grow. Bent

Interesting viewpoint. It sounds like what you're say is, you'd like to join in, but only if they do away with the guidelines that make it what it is to begin with?

Kind of like a guy who wants to be in a band, but doesn't want to have to play an instrument. :wink:

 

[54ball]

Is there some misconception here?

Bentchile, I do not know any way to put this other than, Have you actually pursued the Rondy stuff or are you repeating an internet gripe of others?

You make a point to say you have NEVER been, so how do you know?

Muzzleloading,collecting,shooting, hunting,rendezvous, and reenactment/living history are all separate and different hobbies.

They may have a lot in common, but what is true for the reenactor really has no bearing on the shooter,collector, hunter or rendezvous goer. They are all different pursuits.

How can one negatively impact the other?

Example...

How can a military vehicle show or club negatively impact the 4x4 hobby?

Is it because someone shows up with a OD green 90 Wrangler with a star on the hood and has to park in visitor parking?

Since they and their beloved Wrangler are dissed. They make it their life's mission to post and gripe on every board on the net about, tread nazis.

Then you have the bobble heads who agree with Wrangler guy and chime right in. Most of these folks do not own a military vehicle or even a 4x4 and have no interest to do so, but they join in on the gripe fest just the same.

So a community of "tread nazi" haters emerge based on misconception and for lack of better terms lies and fantasy.

 

[oldude]

Most of the Rondies that post an ad give the time frame in which they portray and visitors are welcome for a few hours or certian days but unless you meet the standards then you must leave and then return the next day, some allow you to enter some of the contest, yes you can get items at the show/rondy but do you have any idea what to get ? as a new person and do you have the chance to spend time with the one of the well dressed/outfitted persons there? to pick their brain.

No I don't think the rules should be relaxed across the board, but there should be gatherings "open" enough to attract the wanna-be people out there. And yes there are some gatherings that are "open".
I have been in car clubs and motorcycle clubs and some of them also have standards some of which are tite that make it hard to become a member.

I have not been to a gathering as most have not been near enough or conflicted with life/work, but that was MY choice

If joining in a discussion and voiceing my 2cw makes me a NAZI then maybe I don't belong even in the outer circle. Bent