Muzzleloading Future

[necchi]

Young people have less of an interest in American history with each new generation. They are not interested in old, outdated firearms.

I was never interested in History in High School or much after that.
I used to sleep in Ol`e Lady Pelisiers history class and I still passed, :idunno:

And I had no interest in outdated firearms either, until the modern stuff became too easy.
There simply wasn't any sport to shooting deer and antelope in Wyoming with a 30-06.

I stumbled into this sport an pastime, youth don't know what they want anyways. Like they say,
Youth is wasted on the young,,

I don't know where you guys are all hangin out, but around here I see new people and families getting into this all the time. The camps I go to are getting bigger each year, not fast, but it's growing.

I don't agree with all of Richard Eames points but he hit it on the head with disposable income.
I've had all my gear for years now but it's all of a couple grand.
Gadd's, this season it's going to cost me $100 in fuel alone to go to a vous`.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I don't know where you guys are all hangin out, but around here I see new people and families getting into this all the time.

I don't base my assumptions on local, anecdotal evidence, but more on sales trends and the number of side-locks that are being discontinued by manufacturers. The number of stores that no longer carry BP is staggering.

Look at Cabelas online catalog:
Non-traditional muzzleloading rifles = 46 (starting at $199)
Traditional rifles and shotguns = 24

The availability of something is usually a good indication of demand. IMO

 

[necchi]

Yeah well there ain't no marijuana or cocain in store here in Minn either, but I understand folks keep buying the stuff.

Available marketing as designated by some pencil jock in an office in Chicago is having little affect on the hobby here in Minn.

When T/C raised the price of their Hawkin to over $600 is there little wonder why people aren't buying them?

 

Yeah well there ain't no marijuana or cocain in store here in Minn either, but I understand folks keep buying the stuff.

so there's a black market in Minn for BP guns?

Available marketing as designated by some pencil jock in an office in Chicago is having little affect on the hobby here in Minn.

When T/C raised the price of their Hawkin to over $600 is there little wonder why people aren't buying them?

It has little effect, but people aren't buying? Which is it?

 

[Carteret Kid]

Yeah well there ain't no marijuana or cocain in store here in Minn either, but I understand folks keep buying the stuff.

so there's a black market in Minn for BP guns?

Available marketing as designated by some pencil jock in an office in Chicago is having little affect on the hobby here in Minn.

When T/C raised the price of their Hawkin to over $600 is there little wonder why people aren't buying them?

It has little effect, but people aren't buying? Which is it?

I believe most MLs are sold online now.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The pendulum swings. A movie can indeed make a difference. The centennial of the civil war helped some, then the Bicentennial of the Rev War. The many folks were drawn away by other things, cowboy shooting, computers, whatever.

As noted by another there is a general lack of confidence in doing anything for one self. An acquaintance needed a touch hole liner installed and I had him come over to have it down. He asked I don't know how many times if it would ruin the gun, did it need to be heat treated etc. We drilled out the hole, tapped it and installed the liner in about 30 minutes, 5 times longer than it should have taken because of his worries. He had never seen threads tapped. A few months ago, I heard him bragging about how easy it was to do.

All the mom and pop hardware stores are closing because folks don't fix anything, they throw it away, or hire a person to come fix it. I stopped at a neighbor's to hire her son to do some chores around the farm. Her light switch was broken. I just happened to have a new one in the truck for a job at home. She had no screw drivers anywhere.

 

Yeah well there ain't no marijuana or cocain in store here in Minn either, but I understand folks keep buying the stuff.

so there's a black market in Minn for BP guns?

Available marketing as designated by some pencil jock in an office in Chicago is having little affect on the hobby here in Minn.

When T/C raised the price of their Hawkin to over $600 is there little wonder why people aren't buying them?

It has little effect, but people aren't buying? Which is it?

I believe most MLs are sold online now.

Then based on the Cabela's offerings above, not as many people want traditional, or they would offer them.

 

[Crow Beads]

There is a new movie to be released in April entitled "Alone Yet Not Alone." It is a F&I period piece about a family that was captured by Indians. The trailer shows plenty of flintlock action. There are many young people in the cast. That should help get the message out.

We went to the Colorado ML Winter Trade Show and Convention today. It was very poorly attended both by vendors and the public. Those who were in period costume had to be an average of 65 years old. The ladies were a bit younger. A prominent builder (from my home town of Lyons) said ML was seriously dying out. The most common snips of conversation that I overheard involved arthritis, age related vision problems, strokes and bad shoulders.

I've been in and out (mostly out) of ML for about forty-four years now. Deb and I are going to get involved again this year. We competed in Cowboy Action Shooting for seven years. Both of us played in the BP categories. Recently CAS has become blindingly fast, the targets closer, the guns more tricked out and reloading far more expensive. We did quite well but the fun just went out of it. ML is leisurely. Speed is not a factor. I think more folks will leave CAS in the future for ML especially those who did it before.

A solid bet for ML investing is second-generation Colt made percussion revolvers. These were the best of the bunch. Make sure they have the original brown boxes, paperwork and are unfired.

 

[FishDFly]

Yep, again.

If you build it they will come (not if there are no sales), if there is no market, they will not come, nor will they buy.

Where is the Possibles Shop as a board sponsor now? I bought from him regularly since he was a board sponsor.

 

[FishDFly]

The most common snips of conversation that I overheard involved arthritis, age related vision problems, strokes and bad shoulders.

As folks get older the following occur: arthritis, age related vision problems, strokes and bad shoulders.

Kind of hard to shoot with physical ailments is it not?

 

[Claude Mathis]

There is a new movie to be released in April entitled "Alone Yet Not Alone." It is a F&I period piece about a family that was captured by Indians. The trailer shows plenty of flintlock action. There are many young people in the cast. That should help get the message out.

I agree, if young people aren't too busy watching vampire and zombie movies. Kids who are into the Kardashians, Justin Bieber and The Black-Eyed Peas may not be thinking, "Oh boy, a movie with flintlocks". :wink:

 

[vthunter52]

I've seen a couple of trends that show a rise in interest in BP firearms and hunting.

1. More opportunities for deer hunting seasons. More hunter's are now pursuing game with the firelock, and most of those I have experience with have returned to the challenge of going traditional after a couple years.

2. Politics and economics. With all that is going on these days,shooters have found a way to enjoy the shooting sports with battling the high costs of modern firearms and their luxury ammo. We used to think that a custom or semi-custom muzzleloader that costs 1000-1200 dollars was out of reach, but just look at the cost of todays basic factory cf, and we are getting a bargin, and can shoot a whole lot more! It is also less of an intrusive transaction in the purchase process,( although I'm sure that will change)

3. I think that a lot of hunter's are also finding that the bp firearm has a versatility that the others don't. With a good 12 or 20 smoothbore you have all that you need in one gun, again this is economical, and practical. Even in regular rifle seasons in Vt., and NY, where I hunt, more are carrying the muzzleloader, and I see more sidelocks each year.

This forum also serves as a good example. I've not been here all that long, yet every day new members are signing on and swelling the membership ranks. The good thing is the interest being exhibited by the new members. I think that this trend will continue.

 

[majg1234]

well I'm depressed now I think I'll go get some Prozac,Celexa or you know what.....I'll just go make smoke tomorrow and take one of the grandsons with me :v I've been blessed with 2 outa 3 that love to hunt shoot camp and are very interested in my flinters.Cool is the word they have used for them.Both of them want a SB flinter of their own. only problem is they go through BP too fast But ya know what as long as I can I'll keep buying it and we will be making memories :thumbsup: The muzzleloading future is bright here in this SE Tn house :hatsoff:

 

[Crow Beads]

Richard:

My friend, I was not trying to be funny. My age is listed on my posts. Did you notice? Well I notice it every day. In another lifetime I won fourth place in the U.S. High School Judo Nationals and made the final podium in regional and state level meets. I can remember hearing entire auditoriums full of people wildly cheering me during numerous tournaments. Now how do you suppose I feel living in this 62 (next week) year old piece of manure body? I wish I could forget that I was ever a teen and twenty-something phenom. And that's not the worst part. The worst part is that I and those good men I spoke with today will never ever feel young and powerful again for as long as we live.

My favorite toast is from old Gus in "Lonesome Dove": "Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago."
I still have my dreams. Now I think I've said way too much. My best to all of you.

 

[pab1]

I stopped going because of the rancor and contrariness displayed by some attendees. Can't imagine any young people getting involved w/ these guys.

Thats a good point. The people currently into muzzleloading could really get the sport to grow by welcoming others in or help ensure its demise. It all comes down to how others view us.

 

[Walks with fire]

Well I guess IMO traditional muzzleloading would be in decline. I also think the overall situation in the USA is in decline. There are many reasons and they are tied to each other in various ways.

There is only so much time and money that people have today; it's much different than it was just 50 years ago. I don't see a muzzleloader as an investment anymore than other recreational gear one might need to enjoy a certain activity or sport. Any of these activities are expensive in today's economy for many people.

This is one sport that I make allowance for in my expenses. I can't do the fishing, hunting, golfing and many other things that I used to be able to afford because of the economy. I make less per hour and work much longer hours; travel to work is expensive because of gas. Heck; I just don't have the money, time or health to get it all done. Flintlock deer season is something I really look forward to and although I usually get a deer (whitetails) it's some pretty expensive meat and I butcher my own.

I have centerfires but they never get used. There are quite a few youngsters in our deer drive group. They are sons of the "boomer" group and they love it just as much as we do.

Bottom line is: stuff harder to get and the activity is more expensive. Until energy gets cheaper and available time and wages go up not much will grow in this sport or in this country for that matter.

 

[nkbj]

Yeah! We need a traditional monster movie with grumpy red coats shooting sharpened stakes out of their Bess's at zombies from the islands. Work in a few cross dressing pirates and racial revenge themes for a sure fire hit at the box office.
Quick somebody call Hollywand, uh, wood.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

At my club we in conjunction with the Ohioi Department of Natural Resources sponsered a first time muzzleloaders class, and geared it toward youngsters and women. The ODNR gave us a matching grant for instructional supplies,etc. We bought a flintlock and a percussion rifle made particularly for small statured people. Also all the accoutrment necessary for shooting. The left over supplies and stuff got saved for any youngster that wants to shoot our woodswalk, so they do not have to spend dollars they probably do not have to enjoy the sport. Granted only 16 participated, but it's a start. And we have 2 complete sets of gear for any that care to shoot with us. Thanks go to the ODNR. I'll see if I can post a couple of pictures if that's OK.

 

[pab1]

At my club we in conjunction with the Ohioi Department of Natural Resources sponsered a first time muzzleloaders class, and geared it toward youngsters and women. The ODNR gave us a matching grant for instructional supplies,etc. We bought a flintlock and a percussion rifle made particularly for small statured people. Also all the accoutrment necessary for shooting. The left over supplies and stuff got saved for any youngster that wants to shoot our woodswalk, so they do not have to spend dollars they probably do not have to enjoy the sport. Granted only 16 participated, but it's a start. And we have 2 complete sets of gear for any that care to shoot with us. Thanks go to the ODNR. I'll see if I can post a couple of pictures if that's OK.

Thats great! :hatsoff:

 

[Coot]

I do not have great expectations for the future of traditional muzzleloading. The culture of our country is becoming more urban and politically correct. You don't find guns for sale at Western Auto, Sears or the local hardware anymore. The schools demonize all guns even down to plastic keychain ornaments. Few people have the easy access to places to shoot that previous generations enjoyed. Black powder is difficult to find in many areas and, if shipping restrictions are imposed, will be impossible for many. I am well aware that modern muzzleloading has always been a small percentage of the shooting hobby. But I see the shooting hobby in decline. Black plastic pistols and "assault" rifles, which in my opinion are more likely to be bought to have rather than to frequently shoot, sell very well indeed and the numbers of gun owners may be at an all time high, but the numbers of people who are likely to list shooting as a hobby is (IMHO) in decline. We like to think that a blockbuster movie featuring flintlocks will motivate people but back in the 50s & 60s, it was not one movie but dozens and lots of TV shows as well - I can probably blame "Riverboat" and "Yancy Derringer" for the urge to get my first BP revolver (a Navy Arms '51 navy) back in the 60s. I do not see such widespread 'inspiration' today. Yes, the economy is not helping but a box 40 S&W costs more than a pound of powder & an AR15 costs as much as some custom rifles & both of the modern items are sold out. I truly wish that I could feel more confident ............................