Muzzleloading Myths

[Woodwright]

I can't remember where I read it, I think perhaps in a bio of Daniel Boon. On an occasion when powder had be sent to him he was pleased to find the shipment contained a packet of fine French powder.

The word "fine" probably referred to its quality, not the granulation.

 

[Freedom]

Funny how something that has been around for decades does not work. I used it on many rifles, and they dont flame after the calculation.

Its designed to stop wasting powder, one the ball leaves the barrel, the flame does not push it any faster.

We are a long ways from wasting powder with our modern sedated ideas and "shooting over a bedsheet" nonsense.

Sir Walter Baker had a 16 bore rifle made by Gibbs. He wrote about this rifle in his book titled "Wild Beasts and their Ways"

The rifle was 21 pounds with a 36 inch barrel. His load was 438grains of powder behind a 1750grain conical. (!) Davenport claims only 142 grains is burned...not likely.

Have a 5 inch, 12 bore Howdah pistol... and more powder equates to more velocity.. Davenport says 24gr is my optimal powder charge(!?) But 50gr.=550fps and 150gr will break 1000fps with a roundball in the little 5-inch barrel.

 

[user 53891]

While we strive to be as traditional as possible in our hobby, some more than others, there are a few elements that are very important today that didn’t exist 200 years ago, some not even a 100 years ago.
Take powder for instance, we spend a whole lot of time discussing the merits of 4F, 3F, 2F, 1 1/2F, and 1F. To the best of my knowledge in the 18th century there were only 2 grades of powder, coarse cannon and rifle grade. I’m no expert at this and I’d like to know the timeline of our modern grades. I’ve read that 4F didn’t originate until the 1930’s, curious if that’s true. Another myth is the use of a short starter. I’ve read that there’s no evidence of its use prior to the early 20th century (1920’s & 30’s). What’s your opinion of this and other “Myths”.

I agree TDM. There are many things that we will never know for sure that were used or produced back then. Some say at rendezvous, "that isn't period correct"! How do you know for sure? They used what they had in to the next decades, and then even further. Just like today, the fashions are what we already wore in the early 1960's(The short, skinny, tight pants, etc.).

 

[sportster73hp]

From the video, 24 grains of H110 in a 44 mag is pretty much a max load. 80 grains in a 45 rifle had to be aggressive ! Then the triple charge result was expected.
What I wanted to see were the results using bp substitutes.

 

[Shadowalker164]

Freedom475, I tend to agree with you. As I understand it BP is a low grade explosive. The flame front moves slower than the speed of sound, but not by much! At 650 fps The flame front will travel 7,800 inches in one second. Can’t seem to get the math for 10” of powder, or 20” but it’s gotta be quick! I’m no expert, but it seems the whole charge will burn (Ouch!)

 

[Stantheman86]

Myth- "You have to clean the bore after each shot , firing dozens of bullets like that is going to hurt accuracy "

Captain Claude Minie says otherwise.......

 

[dr.s.goerisch]

My father believed a sharp enough impact could cause black powder to ignite and as a result of this fear (unfounded) he never had black powder, he would only shoot pyrodex and had me afraid to use the stuff. I didn't shoot actual holey black until about 13 years ago. Was just sure it was a dangerous substance and likely to blow up...
Now I only shoot Black Powder and the last can of pyrodex I bought has been sitting in my stuff untouched for about 12 years now. Just prefer BP. I find it is less stinky than pyrodex.

I totally agree with cynthialee.
Did you ever hear that dull knives (or carpentry tools) are causing more and worse injuries than properly sharpened blades? To my experience, Pyrodex and other BP substitutes are dull blades.

When BP substitutes became available for the BP shooting society in Europe, like all novelties we just needed to get hold of it, no matter what... even though there never was a real need for Pyrodex and others.
Especially in Germany (the homeland of red tape) there were laws against using Pyrodex - and lots of regulations.
Like one law requiring your firearm to be tested (proofed) for the use with BP substitutes.
You guys in America probably haven't even heard about "proof marks" on firearms?

Well, if you import an "unproofed" firearm or barrel, before ever firing on shot from it the barrel needs to be "proofed" by one of the Federal firearms proofing facilities. These facilities test fire each barrel with overloads. If the barrel stands up to the pressure, it is stamped with a date and the seal of the testing facility. Using unproofed (unmarked) barrels is illegal in Germany.

Before these authorities even got around to developping proofing standards for Pyrodex, the urge to use BB substitutes
faded out in Germany. Shooters who had hoped to see improvements through BB substitutes, soon found that there was no benefit at all to gain from using Pyrodex.

I have tried all available grades of Pyrodex für muzzle loaders, as well as CTG (for reloading 40-70 Sharps straight, .45-70 Gov. and .50-70 Gov, and I found all of them inferior to good old genuine black powder.

 

[dtruex]

In regard to static electricity not being able to ignite black powder... I know the Bevel Brothers tested it, and I believe the Navy did, too. I will totally believe that normal amounts of static from pouring from plastic containers cannot set it off. But I have ignited black powder with static electricity. I worked for 36 years in a fiberglass insulation factory. In my much younger days I was working on a line that made 4x8 ft. sheets of the base material for ceiling tiles. As they came off the belt one guy would stack them about a foot high and push each stack down several sections of metal roller conveyers to 2 more guys who stacked them onto ware trucks (all this totally automated these days). The stacker had to remember to keep the front of his thigh pressed against the metal frame to keep himself grounded. If you forgot for a few boards and then your leg touched you got a very nasty zap in your leg. The roller conveyors were in 8 foot units and if the gap between the sections was less than an inch you got a nice little arc of static "lightning" between the two. Being a flintlock shooter, of course my first thought was "That's a great spark! I wonder...." So I brought in some priming powder and put a little pile of it in the gap area. Sure enough- Poof! We tried it three or four times. This was about 30 years ago, and when I started seeing discussions of static and black powder a few years ago, I thought maybe I was remembering it wrong. So asked a friend who worked with me and he said yes, I was remembering correctly. I admit these were not your normal static conditions. I'm just saying that you cannot say that it is impossible.

 

[Rudyard]

Not to nitpick but barrels were of forged iron, not cast.

The improuvment that made iron into steel was Adding Carbon not reducing it. Prior to the Bessemer converter steel was made in a crucible but not in the volume that the Bessemer converter did . They did cast barrels but only large canon barrels not small arms .I was born in the' City of Steel' & it wans't Pittsburg .There is a Bessemer converter out side the Sheffield Industrial Museum at Neepsend . Its easy to get confused please don't take my comment as unkindly .
Regards Rudyard

 

[1BadDart]

In regard to static electricity not being able to ignite black powder... I know the Bevel Brothers tested it, and I believe the Navy did, too. I will totally believe that normal amounts of static from pouring from plastic containers cannot set it off. But I have ignited black powder with static electricity. I worked for 36 years in a fiberglass insulation factory. In my much younger days I was working on a line that made 4x8 ft. sheets of the base material for ceiling tiles. As they came off the belt one guy would stack them about a foot high and push each stack down several sections of metal roller conveyers to 2 more guys who stacked them onto ware trucks (all this totally automated these days). The stacker had to remember to keep the front of his thigh pressed against the metal frame to keep himself grounded. If you forgot for a few boards and then your leg touched you got a very nasty zap in your leg. The roller conveyors were in 8 foot units and if the gap between the sections was less than an inch you got a nice little arc of static "lightning" between the two. Being a flintlock shooter, of course my first thought was "That's a great spark! I wonder...." So I brought in some priming powder and put a little pile of it in the gap area. Sure enough- Poof! We tried it three or four times. This was about 30 years ago, and when I started seeing discussions of static and black powder a few years ago, I thought maybe I was remembering it wrong. So asked a friend who worked with me and he said yes, I was remembering correctly. I admit these were not your normal static conditions. I'm just saying that you cannot say that it is impossible.

Many years ago there was a guy that came down from Indiana to dove hunt with us. He was friends with a friend of ours and would stay for two weeks at a time and hunt every day. He had scars on one arm, the side of his face and ear. Being a kid, I asked him what happened, he replied that he reached in a keg of black powder and the hair on his arm had static electricity built up, it struck a set off the black powder. To this day I have no reason to believe he was lying.

 

[user 53891]

Many years ago there was a guy that came down from Indiana to dove hunt with us. He was friends with a friend of ours and would stay for two weeks at a time and hunt every day. He had scars on one arm, the side of his face and ear. Being a kid, I asked him what happened, he replied that he reached in a keg of black powder and the hair on his arm had static electricity built up, it struck a set off the black powder. To this day I have no reason to believe he was lying.

A keg of black powder.......hmmmmmm

 

[1BadDart]

A keg of black powder.......hmmmmmm

Yes, a keg. Probably happened in the 60's.

 

[user 53891]

Yes, a keg. Probably happened in the 60's.

Have you ever seen the impact of a keg of black powder exploding??

 

[chorizo]

Have you ever seen the impact of a keg of black powder exploding??

If he was reaching in, it was likely about empty. Also, if it was multiple times, there may have been fine dust in the keg. Doesn't take much to set that off.....happens all the time in wheat silos.

 

[1BadDart]

Have you ever seen the impact of a keg of black powder exploding??

I don't recall posting anything about me, other than what I was told as a kid.

 

[chorizo]

I remember at the gun club I shot 4 position small bore competition as a kid that there was an empty heavy duty cardboard black powder keg used for our spent brass. Several fellows had cannons and would always use them as a salute when the home town team scored a goal at football. I now surmise that is how they purchased their powder.

Funny how stuff like that was "normal" back then.

 

[Patched]

Freedom475, I tend to agree with you. As I understand it BP is a low grade explosive. The flame front moves slower than the speed of sound, but not by much! At 650 fps The flame front will travel 7,800 inches in one second. Can’t seem to get the math for 10” of powder, or 20” but it’s gotta be quick! I’m no expert, but it seems the whole charge will burn (Ouch!)

Some day work on a ranch in eastern Nevada involved blowing the tops off of large rocks poking up in the road…drill a hole, insert cannon fuse, add black powder followed by a cloth wadding and packed with mud.

More powder always resulted in a bigger explosion…no rock was immune to fracturing in some way…it seemed to act like a hammer blow but from the inside.
Just observational conjecture on my part, but the stronger the containment resistance the harder the explosion hit…

 

[SamTex1949]

Lets split logs !!

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I've been "seasoning" my barrels ever since T/C started promoting the idea. Haven't had any rust issues in forty years of shooting. That said, I haven't been able to crawl into the bore so I can get a close look at it.

 

[chorizo]

I've been "seasoning" my barrels ever since T/C started promoting the idea. Haven't had any rust issues in forty years of shooting. That said, I haven't been able to crawl into the bore so I can get a close look at it.

Don't get an endoscope...It will depress you. It makes a gnat's dropping look like a great dane visited your bore.