My first Pietta…issues

[Stantheman86]

I just received a steel framed Pietta 1851 Navy from EMF. Other than the usual not quite perfect grip to frame fit, I see no real issues. It does have the black hammer which I am not totally thrilled with but guess I can live with that.

There's an easy fix for the black hammer

 

[Stantheman86]

The non engraved cylinder would be a game changer for me...along with the plastic grips. Might be OK to shoot but I wouldn't consider it much of a replica. But that is just MPO.

It's an "accidental " replica of probably one of the rarest revolvers to ever exist

Minus the plastic grips.....but it's basically a Schneider & Glassick revolver in .44. Of which Schneider & Glassick made a few of , but the CS govt wanted to standardize on the .36 Navy pattern for all the contract revolvers so they never made more than a prototype or two. It is believed anyway, because none survived

 

[rhart]

Maybe buy from Taylor's or Cimarron to get better quality? I've heard these companies have inspectors at the Italian factories to hand pick the guns that get their names on the guns. Probably cost a little more, but cheaper in the long run?

 

[Stantheman86]

Maybe buy from Taylor's or Cimarron to get better quality? I've heard these companies have inspectors at the Italian factories to hand pick the guns that get their names on the guns. Probably cost a little more, but cheaper in the long run?

It was "alleged" that Cimarron inspects all of the Ubertis, both percussion and cartridge, and pays a little more for better finishing and better QC . Since they reject lemons, Uberti apparently sends them the cream of the crop . The guns cost more but honestly it's worth it if you actually intend to use it a lot.

People on here will say this is false, but my Cimarron Walker is better in every way including polishing, fitting and bluing than my "standard " Ubertis.

 

[Ed C.]

There's an easy fix for the black hammer

I'm interested in the fix and anyone that has done color case hardening.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm interested in the fix and anyone that has done color case hardening.

I just dropped the hammer and loading lever assembly in a solo cup full of vinegar, let it sit for a day and pulled them out. Then cleaned throughly

Enough of the fake color case on the lever and the black/blue finish on the hammer won't completely come off and leaves the steel "tinted" unevenly so it looks like faded color casing and matches the loading lever.

I did this to the round barrel Brasser on the bottom. The octagonal barrel Brasser had a color cased hammer, being a little older and I left the black hammer on the 12" revolver

The hammer "de-blacked"

 

[Ed C.]

I just dropped the hammer and loading lever assembly in a solo cup full of vinegar, let it sit for a day and pulled them out. Then cleaned throughly

Enough of the fake color case on the lever and the black/blue finish on the hammer won't completely come off and leaves the steel "tinted" unevenly so it looks like faded color casing and matches the loading lever.

I did this to the round barrel Brasser on the bottom. The octagonal barrel Brasser had a color cased hammer, being a little older and I left the black hammer on the 12" revolver
View attachment 195622

The hammer "de-blacked"


View attachment 195623

I just dropped the hammer and loading lever assembly in a solo cup full of vinegar, let it sit for a day and pulled them out. Then cleaned throughly

Enough of the fake color case on the lever and the black/blue finish on the hammer won't completely come off and leaves the steel "tinted" unevenly so it looks like faded color casing and matches the loading lever.

I did this to the round barrel Brasser on the bottom. The octagonal barrel Brasser had a color cased hammer, being a little older and I left the black hammer on the 12" revolver
View attachment 195622

The hammer "de-blacked"


View attachment 195623

Thanks. I'm going to try that after my next session with that gun.

 

[Stantheman86]

All the color casing is fake, it's just a chemically applied cosmetic finish that's basically bluing because people want pretty Color Case.

Uberti does a better job of Fake Color Casing hammers than Pietta

 

[Stantheman86]

Thanks. I'm going to try that after my next session with that gun.

You may have to wipe a little of the blacking off after it comes out of the vinegar , it's a pretty thick finish and a few specks and spots stayed on that easily knocked off with a paper towel

They will form instant rust when they hit the air after coming out of the vinegar, no problem, just use action blaster or any CLP to thoroughly wipe and clean the parts and they'll be fine .

 

[Bunk]

It was "alleged" that Cimarron inspects all of the Ubertis, both percussion and cartridge, and pays a little more for better finishing and better QC . Since they reject lemons, Uberti apparently sends them the cream of the crop . The guns cost more but honestly it's worth it if you actually intend to use it a lot.

People on here will say this is false, but my Cimarron Walker is better in every way including polishing, fitting and bluing than my "standard " Ubertis.

I got a Taylor 1851 Navy by Uberti that had more problems that I will relate here. It was all cured by massaging the gunsmith with $150 in small unmarked bills that is regular size, small denominations.
NEVER FORGET
If you have a problem
and money will cure the problem
and you have the money
you don't have a problem
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[Stantheman86]

If money isn't an object, there are plenty of good gunsmiths who will definitely take your $$ to fix or improve your cap and ballers.

I have a few unmentionable SA and DA revolvers that I had worked over by a gunsmith who specializes in working over competition guns and has the skills to do stuff like fabricate and fit parts. It is definitely noticeable when someone who knows what they are doing, slicks up and improves a gun.

It's just me but if my cap and ballers are working properly, and I can make little tweaks myself I just shoot them. I swapped mainsprings in one recently to make it reliable, as the frame was fitted a little tight to the hammer and when the gun got dirty it "dragged". A heavier mainspring cured it, and the hammer is wearing in nicely to the frame. I have not run into an issue yet that I couldn't fix myself. Sometimes you just need to run them hard for a few range sessions to break them in.

 

[Ed C.]

If money isn't an object, there are plenty of good gunsmiths who will definitely take your $$ to fix or improve your cap and ballers.

I have a few unmentionable SA and DA revolvers that I had worked over by a gunsmith who specializes in working over competition guns and has the skills to do stuff like fabricate and fit parts. It is definitely noticeable when someone who knows what they are doing, slicks up and improves a gun.

It's just me but if my cap and ballers are working properly, and I can make little tweaks myself I just shoot them. I swapped mainsprings in one recently to make it reliable, as the frame was fitted a little tight to the hammer and when the gun got dirty it "dragged". A heavier mainspring cured it, and the hammer is wearing in nicely to the frame. I have not run into an issue yet that I couldn't fix myself. Sometimes you just need to run them hard for a few range sessions to break them in.

Like you, I have always been able to keep my guns running but I also know my limits. I am very reluctant to ever take metal off of any parts other than light polishing of obvious burrs or sharp edges. I'm sure I could fine tune my guns until they didn't work anymore!

 

[dr.s.goerisch]

Piettas and Ubertis have always been a crap shoot

That said, 10 years ago I bought a brand new $1200 S&W 629 that jammed up solid after 6 rounds

S&W basically told me to go pound sand, so I fitted new parts myself and it works fine. I still have it

I had a Ruger SP101 blow a barrel off, they sent my dealer a brand new gun after I sent my now 2-piece gun to them and Ruger didnt want to talk about it

Turds exist at every price level and even for American made guns

The customer is the final QC now

Pietta and Uberti sell product and they put the least effort into their percussion revolvers because most people view them as "mail order toys" . I have 2 Uberti cartridge revolvers and they're perfect. They also cost 2x as much as a cap and baller.

I'd rather keep the $250 Pietta on the market than have to pay $500 for a
.44 Brasser that's "better" and then they've priced themselves out of the market.

 

[dr.s.goerisch]

Supply from Europe is in bad shape and guns that were cheap are now getting more expensive.
And Now the popularity of brass frame revolvers has increased. Which is making it harder to get new shooters involved in our sport.
If the world doesn't come to its senses soon, "We The People" may end up with no new guns at all.

Sorry to say that most of Europe appears to have made some headway on the route to a life without weapons.
In Germany, getting caught carrying a knife with over 12 cm (4.7 ") blade length in public will get you in trouble. Some European companies who used to produce respectable muzzleloaders (and other guns) for decades have now already discontinued making those. On top of the list Feinwerkbau, makers of a fine replica of the Rogers & Spencer cap and ball sixgun, and also a very well made underhammer percussion pistol.
I bought my R&S made by Feinwerkbau back in 1988 for then 1200 Deutsche Mark, Italian made sixguns etc. were at about 300 Mark in those days, some even cheaper. I had been shooting that R&S in competitions ever since, about 300 shots each year, without any problems, till last year its trigger sear finally was worn out. I had to learn that Feinwerkbau had already discontinued its line of BP guns (they still make top grade air rifles), and that I was lucky to get a hammer and a trigger out of their last remaining stock of parts. This repair cost me the equivalent of 500 Dollars. Better than spending 400 for a brand-new piece of Italian soft steel junk.

 

[ernbar]

I think it’s just hit and miss with either Uberti and Pietta. The Pietta pistols I have were perfect out of the box yet one Uberti Dragoon I ordered from Midway had several issues that should have been caught by the manufacturer prior to shipping it. Both barrel and nipples needed Superman to get them off. I resolved the tight fitting barrel by polishing the arbor till it was easily removed. Had to mount the cylinder using a jig in my vice to remove the over tightened nipples. The frame had an ugly blemish that came off with careful polishing.
So like I said, it’s the luck of the draw specially when buying unseen.

 

[dr.s.goerisch]

If money isn't an object, there are plenty of good gunsmiths who will definitely take your $$ to fix or improve your cap and ballers.

I have a few unmentionable SA and DA revolvers that I had worked over by a gunsmith who specializes in working over competition guns and has the skills to do stuff like fabricate and fit parts. It is definitely noticeable when someone who knows what they are doing, slicks up and improves a gun.

It's just me but if my cap and ballers are working properly, and I can make little tweaks myself I just shoot them. I swapped mainsprings in one recently to make it reliable, as the frame was fitted a little tight to the hammer and when the gun got dirty it "dragged". A heavier mainspring cured it, and the hammer is wearing in nicely to the frame. I have not run into an issue yet that I couldn't fix myself. Sometimes you just need to run them hard for a few range sessions to break them in.

Stan, I agree 100 %. But even if one had the money, to get themselves "a gunsmith who specializes..." to slick up and repair guns not working properly, they would have a very hard time f i n d i n g a craftsman of that kind in Europe.
I've had a good friend work over a lousy Italian-made open top sixgun, just last week. My friend has a private workshop, owns a few tools (including welding equipment). As you can see in the picture below, this .36 Navy model sported an excessive cylinder gap (0.045"), its wedge was badly misaligned from the start.
By trying to "correct" that gap by hammering on wedge, some pre-owner had caused the axle to come lose in the frame. My friend spent 4 hours to fix this condition.
A German gunsmith would have asked about 320 € for that kind of job (if he would touch an "Italian piece of junk" at all). Sixguns like that you would find by the hundred, for 50 to 80 € apiece (provided you held a German license. Only single-shotmuzzleloaders are still free in Germany).

 

[Stantheman86]

I think it’s just hit and miss with either Uberti and Pietta. The Pietta pistols I have were perfect out of the box yet one Uberti Dragoon I ordered from Midway had several issues that should have been caught by the manufacturer prior to shipping it. Both barrel and nipples needed Superman to get them off. I resolved the tight fitting barrel by polishing the arbor till it was easily removed. Had to mount the cylinder using a jig in my vice to remove the over tightened nipples. The frame had an ugly blemish that came off with careful polishing.
So like I said, it’s the luck of the draw specially when buying unseen.

The method I advise to a person new to blackpowder firearms, is to buy from Taylor's or Cimarron, because they are distributors that specialize in CAS guns and work with the Italian gunmakers directly

Midway and Cabelas, etc are just sellers that order guns wholesale in bulk and sell for profit. Pietta and Uberti sneak their turds into these batches

Dixie is also good , they take returns. You'll pay more for the gun , usually though

Midway crushes the competition by offering the same guns for in some cases $100 less....the "special of the week" is the $340 Dragoon. But you're stuck with what you get, better hope it's a good one .

 

[Stantheman86]

Stan, I agree 100 %. But even if one had the money, to get themselves "a gunsmith who specializes..." to slick up and repair guns not working properly, they would have a very hard time f i n d i n g a craftsman of that kind in Europe.
I've had a good friend work over a lousy Italian-made open top sixgun, just last week. My friend has a private workshop, owns a few tools (including welding equipment). As you can see in the picture below, this .36 Navy model sported an excessive cylinder gap (0.045"), its wedge was badly misaligned from the start.
By trying to "correct" that gap by hammering on wedge, some pre-owner had caused the axle to come lose in the frame. My friend spent 4 hours to fix this condition.
A German gunsmith would have asked about 320 € for that kind of job (if he would touch an "Italian piece of junk" at all). Sixguns like that you would find by the hundred, for 50 to 80 € apiece (provided you held a German license. Only single-shotmuzzleloaders are still free in Germany).

I've been having these conversations for probably over 20 years now , about Italian percussion revolvers and basically it does really come down to what you are looking to do with the guns and what your budget is

Most people buy them just to play around with and display, maybe pop some rounds off here and there

They are becoming increasingly popular again in the US because they're cheaper to shoot than the sky high center fire ammo costs allow

The lax gun laws let people in most countries buy them easier than cartridge guns

So they have an appeal to a wide spectrum of gun enthusiasts

CAS shooters use them hard and often tune them up , and people use them in Skirmish matches

If someone wants to pay $100-200 to have one tuned up in America there are plenty of guys willing to take that 200 and make your $300 repro into a $500 repro that works better

Every person in every country has different options. We are still working with reproductions of 1830s-1870s technology.

People sometimes ask me how to load muzzleloaders faster, all like "my cousin says he can load his Hawken in 10 seconds " I'm like ok what did he have it converted to a Trapdoor? I think he's exaggerating....

There's only so much we can do with this technology

 

[Stantheman86]

I think it’s just hit and miss with either Uberti and Pietta. The Pietta pistols I have were perfect out of the box yet one Uberti Dragoon I ordered from Midway had several issues that should have been caught by the manufacturer prior to shipping it. Both barrel and nipples needed Superman to get them off. I resolved the tight fitting barrel by polishing the arbor till it was easily removed. Had to mount the cylinder using a jig in my vice to remove the over tightened nipples. The frame had an ugly blemish that came off with careful polishing.
So like I said, it’s the luck of the draw specially when buying unseen.

MidWay is the crap shoot of all crap shoots, I do honestly believe they buy the Factory Blems and Seconds which is why thir prices are so low

 

[ernbar]

I find it ironic that these US historic and iconic BP pistols are made in Europe and not here in the US .