My first "REAL" flintlock

[robinghewitt]

Only markings on the gun are an "X" on each barrel and an "HL" on one of the barrels.

Hopefully not stamp #7822 :boohoo:

 

[54JNoll]

Robin,

Oops, my markings should read that the initials "HL" are on both barrels, one top and one bottom, while the "X" is only on one barrel and that is located on the bottom.

The "H" is smaller than the "L" and the "L" is set deeper into the barrel. There are no numbers whatsoever on any part of the gun. Although I have not removed the butt plate.

Front lock bolt is countersunk into the left lock plate, passes through and threads into the right side lock plate. As does the the other lock bolt.

I will endevore to take measurements across the lock plates and perhaps take some more pictures with closeups of the markings.

This picture should show the entry pipe with finial and the trigger bow with finial (provided hunt101 is not having problems, and I did my part right).

 

[robinghewitt]

the initials "HL" are on both barrels, one top and one bottom,

That finial looks good. I was worried that this might originally have been a percussion. That HL mark was a Belgian percussion stamp 1830-60. As it is not that exact stamp it could still be same maker but pre-1830 ::

I would really like this to be an American double so I can say I've seen one.

This top and bottom "HL" stamping suggests 2 tubes, with touch holes already drilled. Intended to be singles by the barrel smith but converted to a double by ???who???.

If English that trigger finial would have to be pre-pineapple, rather Twigg'ish if anything, but this is not English. But might the furniture be older than the rest?

For any of this "theory" to be correct the tubes have to be Damascene ::

 

[54JNoll]

My barrels are definately not damascus. Thanks for the info on the stamping as I was going to ask about that.

Belgian and perhaps French or "French influence" have come up in the past reference this gun.

If indeed French perhaps we could forgive them this one thing. :winking: ::

Perhaps Dave can post pictures of his double. The two are remarkably similar. Dave was kind enough to send me photos of his. Thought Dave's is fitted with iron furniture and appears to have no engraving of any kind. Dave's was definately converted to percussion as evidenced by the lock plates. The gunsmith who restored mine back to flint said the same though I did not see mine pre-restoration back to flint.

Thanks again.

 

[robinghewitt]

If not damascene then forget Belgian, probably. They sure look damascene to me, have you tried a wipe of ferric chloride?

Zoom in on the lock, hard to see in the pic.

The front lock screw looks very odd, presume he made frizzen spring short to clear it? The tail could help date it but only if we assume English/Belgian.

 

[54JNoll]

I have not personally tried Ferric Chloride. Is this something I can get at the hardware store?

I have some closer pictures of both the right and left locks. But I have to get them uploaded before I can post them. And right now I can't get to my photo hosting site. ::

Hopefully I can get time tonight to take some pictures of the locks out of the gun and perhaps look for evidence of hooks. I expect the frizzen springs were made short to allow for the forward lock bolt. I will also look for the paperwork that accompied the gun following restoration.

Thanks again. This is kind of fun for me.

 

[Dave K]

I would love to post pictures of my 20ga. that is similiar! I am NOT computer literate. My barrels look so much like 54JNOLL's. They are not Damascus. I have many other guns here that are though, but these are not. I would love to send these pictures to someone if they know how to post them.

 

You can send them to me Dave, to [email protected]

 

[54JNoll]

Update on the markings.

Both locks and both barrels have markings on them.

The left barrel is marked with an "HL" on the bottom and another "HL" on the bottom outside diagonal. This second marking is very shallow and the "H" is very faint. Both sets are slightly different. There is also an "X" marked onto the same oblique flat under the vent.

The right barrel has the "HL" on the top flat. I am calling the initials in all Cases an "HL" though in one set it is possible to say it might be a "C". On the bottom of this barrel is another marking that looks liks a script numeral 5 followed by an underlined X where the top right corner curves inward and the underline is not quite straight. I did not remember this numerical marking in my earlier posts.

The left lock has an or "I" or "1" but could also be an "L" though it looks more like a "1" in truth and is marked inside the lock plate virtically lining up with the pan. This letter sits horizontally.

The right lock plate is marked in the same manner but the marking is much closer to an "I" with no resemblance of a "1" but still you could say it might be an "L". This marking is virticle.

There is definately no signs of the locks having hooks either on the plates or in the mortices.

The butt plate is mounted by two wood screws through the butt and the top "tang" portion on the rear of the comb is pined in place approximately 1.5" forward of the Heal ball. No markings wer visible on the inside or under the butt plate.

The standing breach uses a bolt through the tang not a wood screw.

The locks do angle slightly. The measurements are 2.132" across at the forward lock bolt. 2.161" at the pans. 2.205" just under the cock screws. and the tail tapers back in towards the wrist measuring 2.180".

I will work on getting the pictures up throughout the day.

 

[robinghewitt]

Is it the same as the pics Daryl just posted of Dave K's gun in the percussion section?

 

[54JNoll]

Yes, The intitials are very similar to Dave's. I would say they are the same "guy". Dave's are more even and clear than any of the three sets found on mine. However if you combine the H and L from a couple of mine you could get the look of what is shown for Dave's. Not all the lines of either letter on my gun posses the "flags", as I will call them. Some of the lines are just that, simple lines, while other lines within the same or amongst the same letter have the flags.

Looks like my photo hosting site is upgrading their hardware so I can't upload pictures for a while. I could however, send a couple pictures to you through e-mail.

 

Are the barrels soldered or brazed together?

 

[robinghewitt]

I can't upload pictures for a while. I could however, send a couple pictures to you through e-mail.

Good idea, I could put them up for you,
send to [email protected]

 

[54JNoll]

I don't recall and will have to check.

 

[wurzburger]

I think I used ferric chloride years ago to enhance or bring out the pattern in damascus knife blades. As I recall I got it at Radio Shack. Guess it's used to etch printed circuits??? It was rather slow-acting and easily removed and might bring out the letters and numbers you're trying to "raise".

 

[54JNoll]

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

Considering Dave's are brazed, puts his gun as Belgium mfg'r., but perhaps if the names aren't absolutely IDENTICAL, could put the guns in different countries of origin. The Belgium manufacturers often used an English name, changing the odd letter or spelling to gain sales.
: I am thinking that due to the parallel lock plates, they aren't English however they are delightful weapons and we, the wealthier, for our sharing them with us.

 

[54JNoll]

Thanks to Robin I can post the next set of pictures showing all the barrel markings, the ramros ends, and both locks (inside and out).

 

[Dave K]

54JNOLL, did you notice how the internals of these locks look? It appears as if your main springs are a little shorter or maybe it is you lock plates are a little longer, but the internals look to be the same to me. Just my guess,but I would love to see these guns together to compare. Send yours to me so that I can do that! :crackup:

 

[robinghewitt]

There seems to be a bolt for holding a detachable pan, but no holes for frizzen spring, pivot etc? Are they rivetted over, polished out or what? Here's a pic of a conversion