My huntin' load?

Back in the old days they preformed an operation on a new gun called "Kracking" the rifle.

One would start with a charge slightly on the light side and fire the gun. With each loading they would increase the charge until they got the distinctive "Krack" of powder burning as it exited the muzzle. This was the maximum effective charge in the rifle. It still is!

Since each old gun was different, each used a different charge due to caliber and barrel length. We now have mass produced "standard" guns and we think that there should be a standard charge from a standard loading manual that works for evey application.

Once the first grain of powder burns outside the confines of the barrel any higher loading is wasted powder. It may sound really loud, and make you feel good, but it is doing nothing to increase your MV. Only a longer barrrel will allow you to burn more powder effectively.

Even that reaches a point of diminishing returns.

:results:

Some of my short guns will not burn 90 gns before the ball is expended, a couple will burn 100-120 with no problem, though I seldom load that heavy. My ability to stand the blast and recoil is the major factor.

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . you won't gain any real any real substancial energy down range, because the round ball doesn't have enough bearing surface or weight to burn a complete powder charge of over 70 grains in an average Hawkins barrel.

There might be some point at which the ball leaves the barrel before all the powder has been consumed, and there is certainly a falling off of efficiency and diminishing returns for additional powder (lots more powder to get a little more energy). I can tell you a .54 round ball out of my Renegade with 50 gr FFg is doing a LOT less at 100 yards than an identical ball ahead of 120 gr.

There will be some optimal load that gives maximum energy per grain of powder burned, and it will probably be somewhere around 1,000 fps (the sound barrier). After that, you gotta really push that little inefficient round ball and it resists all the way.

And there is also a point at which a longer barrel just slows the ball down for some loadings.

 

[NORD]

I found that the original mountain men only used about 35 to 40 grains of powder in their muzzleloaders...but I am sure that they were better hunters too. :hmm:

Any comments on this?

 

[Stumpkiller]

In Madison Grant's book Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle there are many 35 grain measures. More so than any other size as I remember. It's impossible to tell what the rifle's caliber that measure was used with, but it seems 35 or a double pour for 70 grains would be sensible.

When you're months away from a re-supply you're likely stingy with the powder.

Hunters embraced the 44-40 WIN when it came out as a fine deer round. That's 40 gr of black powder, though the bullet is a conical. I have a 97 year old neighbor who used to hunt whitetail with a singfle-shot 32-20 Marlin (which he still owns). If you're careful with shot selection and get up close you don't need the gun to do as much work for you.

I use 42 gr FFg in my .54 for small game and I'm pretty sure it would humanely kill a deer (an empty .45 LC case). I'm sticking with 84 gr & 90 gr in my .50 & .54 respectively as I have a lot more confidence with those, and I can get powder . . . for the time being.

 

I'd say 60gr.Swiss is plenty for shooting to 70/80yds. I'd recomment 80gr. Swiss for shooting to 100 to 120yds.
: You need enough velocity remaining to completely penetrate a shoulder blade if necessary, and ribs probably, to the off side of the muley. They are generally bigger and tougher than whitetails and do take more killing. The .50 is just fine, but try using a heavier patch if the ones you're using now cut or burn with the heavier loads. They shouldn't.
: I use the same patches form 30gr. to 100gr. in my .45 cal. They work perfectly. I use nothing but Denim, never have used anything else other then testing, andit's always from .018" to .020". I normally use balls .005" under bore size, but lately in the .45, have used .440's with good accuracy with all powder charges. Increasing the powder charge has NEVER reduced my accuracy, but has merely made hitting at longer ranges, easier. With slow RB twists, increasing the powder charge generally improves the accuracy as well, the higher the charge, the better the accuracy.

 

[NORD]

It is getting so close to my hunting season I really don't want to change anything :: !

When I get somemore time I think I am going to try shooting some 3F in my roundball stuff and see how it shoots.

 

[NORD]

Well I think I need to do some more experimenting...I thought I was done but after about 500 rounds I guess I am not ::!

It is getting so close to my deer hunting season that I don't think I can get to the range before hunting.

Maybe I could get to the range on Saturday and do somemore experimenting...I really don't think it is a good idea to change my hunting load that I am so used to right before the big hunt...any comments? :hmm:

 

I don't see the problem - go to where you can shoot, load up an 80 or 90gr. load and see where it hits at 30/40 or 50 yds. in relation to your other load. If you can easily load another shot, and it hits the same place, within reason to your sight picture, go hunt with it- no problem.
; If you have those incredibly high, &%$#, modernistic sights, then perhaps there MIGHT be a POI problem. With normal low iron rear sights with a silver blade or small bead, specifically for ML's, there won't be a problem as the increased velocity won't raise the impact much, if at all, and usually only makes 100yds. shots easier by flattening the trajectory, without holdover. If the sights are low, there is no change in sight picture for close shots either. Ahhh - the benefits of low sights for hunting rifles.

 

[Stumpkiller]

...any comments?

I stand prepared to comment on any subject, at any time, whether I have any knowledge of the subject or not.

You can experiment with variations, but you haven't "changed" anything if you don't futz with the sights. I am guessing you are talking about switching from Swiss Powder to Goex, slightly changing the amount used (60 to 70 gr as in your original post), or something like that. Try it and see how it patterns. If better, THEN adjust the sights. I have one gun that puts 60 or 90 grains of FFg into the same center-of-the-bullseye group at 25 yards, in another, that would make two distinct groups. At close range, not much difference, at 75 yards, maybe enough to miss a deer with an attempted heart shot. Depends on things like the height of the sights over the line of the bore and zeroed-in distance.

When you make a significant change, you not only have a new zero to figure out, you have a new trajectory to learn. I wouldn't make any major changes unless you intend to spend a whole day at various ranges getting the gun zeroed and learning the new trajectory.

A week before season is not the time to change from conicals to round balls or something like that.

 

[roundball]

I agree with "the stump"...if you're this close to the season, have a load that works, that you have confidence in it, then if I were you, I wouldn't start tinkering at this time of year...Murphy's Law is always just around the corner waiting.

Besides, that's what the off season is for, and you'll have an excellent reason to enjoy shooting at the range all next year having fun experimenting, etc.

 

[NORD]

Ok well thanks for all the information!

My deer season starts on Monday November 1st...I will update you all on my hunt when I get back! :thumbsup: