my "new" flintlock - "Fiddian"

[Adam Lee]

Hey there 'yall!
I am here to get some more eyes on my "new" flinter - so I can get some help on identifying this relic. This is my first and only black powder muzzle-loader, and I'm pretty darn happy to have stumbled upon it this past weekend at a local VFW gun show.
You will have to forgive me for having little detailed information about this gun right yet, I am a fourth grade teacher dealing with 27 kids who are not at all much interested in coming to school at the moment. With less than a dozen school days 'til summer break, I guess I can't blame them!
So here is all I know about the gun: the guy who sold it to me had someone look it over, made a guess that it could be an Indian trade gun assembled in the colonies sometime between 1760-1780. Neither he nor I measured the bore, but his friend's guess was about a .60 caliber. My own totally precise measurement, using the ruler scribed into the side of my leatherman tool to span the diameter of the bore while steadying my hand to some minor degree, was about 5/8". I imagine that when the dust settles, and I have time to myself this summer, closer examination of my new toy will commence.
The only marking visible is the lock maker, "Fiddian". I noticed that the barrel has been trimmed and shortened at some point in its life, judging by what looks like a "cut" nosecap; as well as a neatly cut and re-spliced forestock. Cracks, rust pitting, and the filed-off front sight post add flavor to this old beauty. Also, the various examples of wear and tear - and honest use - make me believe this to be an authentic old gun, and not a well-worn replica.
Again, I encourage anyone interested in helping me learn more about this gun to chime in with any observations at all! My purpose in owning this piece is to serve several purposes: for carrying in drill ceremonies as a compatriot in the Sons of the American Revolution (Fairfax Resolves Chapter), to use in period reenactments, and to preserve history. Of course, given the recommendation to do so by authoritative gunsmiths, I would love to get this old beast out on the range one day - she sparks well! I would love to bring this gun back to use, but only if it was truly deemed safe to do so. I can easily hold off on shooting this gun, and save my black powder for a replica if so recommended.
Thanks for your time!

Adam
sideplate image
lock side full image
"Fiddian" lockplate
muzzle view
trigger guard view
buttplate view
trigger guard and stock view
stock splice and rammer tube
ramrod and simple scribing decoration

 

[msuspartan]

Congrats on your purchase!! :thumbsup: Fine example.

First, find a competent gunsmith and have them check it out. Many on this forum know good gunsmiths in your area. This is for the safety of you to make sure it will fire without a mishap. (which we REALLY don't want :thumbsup: )
Congrats on being a Teacher. Not many thanks but good job anyways! (both mine were Teachers)

Cheers, DonK

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I wouldn't venture a guess except to say "very nice"!

 

[Trench]

Nice. Here's a clue for you, though. The lock looks of a later design. The frizzen spring is missing its roller. Rollers on the frizzen spring were more common from 1790 onwards in the US. You can see where the roller was mounted in your "Trigger Guard View" photo. You also see the overall plate design of your lock after the revolution.

You should post this rifle in the Firearms Research section. You'll get some fine help there.

 

[Trench]

I went through a compialation of British Gunlock makers and didn't come up with anyone named Fiddian.

 

[rich pierce]

Looks 1790-1810, maybe 1820 based on the lock and guard styles, possibly New England to me based on the sideplate but nothing to really regionally identify it better. Great shape!

 

[Mickc01]

Wow!! That is an amazing find, Adam and one mighty fine looking gun. To me, it does looks a little like a pieced together piece but I don't think it's a trade gun. I agree with Trench, the lock looks 1790-turn of the centuryish but from what I can see of the trigger guard it looks like it may have come from a Brown Bess.

Ya know, they aren't making 200 year old flintlocks anymore so you may want to consider not taking it to the range. Just collect, cherish and take care of this fine old piece of history. Many a fine old gun has been ruined by good intentions”¦”¦just my opinion of course.

By-the-way, thanks for the important job you do!!

 

[rabjr]

Looks 1790-1810, maybe 1820 based on the lock and guard styles, possibly New England to me based on the sideplate but nothing to really regionally identify it better. Great shape!

It sure does have a New England-ee look to it to me. :hmm:

 

[Rifleman1776]

To my eye it looks like a build/rebuild from parts. The trigger guard and buttplate could be the era your friend suggested but the lock looks a little older. I would like to see a pic right into the muzzle. That ramrod is recent made. It wouldn't surprise me if that gun has been fired in recent years. Do have it checked out by a qualified individual. Where you live is well populated with ml shooters and reenactors. Finding help should not be difficult.

 

[rabjr]

Actually, I'd like to see a pic of the cheek side of the butt. The gun does appear to be one of the many that were built up here using recycled parts. :hmm:

 

[Okwaho]

I agree with Rich and would estimate 1790-1830. The name "Fiddian" is more than likely that of the lock maker. Without actually handling the gun I would reserve any comment on the possibility of it being a composite although the guard has a really English look to it.Unless you can find a competent gunsmith skilled in restoration not necessarily a builder leave the gun alone.If it were mine I would fix the lock, make sure it wasn't loaded and other than some surface cleaning with a soft rag and mild dish washing detergent,I would leave it alone.I have used a mixture of boiled linseed oil,turpentine,and vinegar in equal parts applied gently as a cleansing agent for maintenance. This will help the wood and NOT affect patina. I would also leave the brass alone but that is a personal decision.I truly HATE boiled linseed oil as a sole preservative.It will attract lint and take forever to dry completely. That's why museums quit using it and since it also darkens the wood and eventually hides the grain.

This gun is a nice rather plain fowling piece in what appears to be original flint but before shooting it I would have it thoroughly checked by a gunsmith competent in flintlock guns of this period.Most reenactment groups frown upon the use of old guns for obvious reasons.

As to your gun's finish,I have handled several early guns in the last several years and have found that simple hand rubbing over a prolonged period will really help to bring them back.For those hard to reach places around the tang panels I use nose grease and a finger.I once worked on an early 18th century gun in attic condition and really brought it back and it was really dry and a lot worse than this gun.On lock removal gently partially turn screws a little at a time tapping as you go. To remove after screws are out ease the lock out and NEVER pull by the hammer.

Good luck with your gun.I just bought a rough as a cob little half stocked carbine which may be a composite late war CW piece possiby stocked in beech with an Enfield style lock. It's gonna present a real challenge since among other challenges the guard ,butt piece and cock screws are slotless nails,but that's the fun of it. :grin: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Adam Lee]

Thanks for your thoughts, Don - I agree with you on my need to have this old gun looked over by a gunsmith who is knowledgeable about original flintlocks. All I have to do is wait until summer break!

Take care - Adam

Congrats on your purchase!! :thumbsup: Fine example.

First, find a competent gunsmith and have them check it out. Many on this forum know good gunsmiths in your area. This is for the safety of you to make sure it will fire without a mishap. (which we REALLY don't want :thumbsup: )
Congrats on being a Teacher. Not many thanks but good job anyways! (both mine were Teachers)

Cheers, DonK

 

[Adam Lee]

Thanks, Coyote Joe! Or should I say, "CJ"? Uh-oh, that makes me have a flashback to an old CJ-5 I once knew.... :grin:

- Adam

I wouldn't venture a guess except to say "very nice"!

 

[Adam Lee]

Trench -
you gave me some great starting points to consider. The observations you provided are exactly what I'd hoped to hear! Thank you!

- Adam

Nice. Here's a clue for you, though. The lock looks of a later design. The frizzen spring is missing its roller. Rollers on the frizzen spring were more common from 1790 onwards in the US. You can see where the roller was mounted in your "Trigger Guard View" photo. You also see the overall plate design of your lock after the revolution.

You should post this rifle in the Firearms Research section. You'll get some fine help there.

 

[Adam Lee]

Thank you for your input, Rich. If anything else, tracking down the specific possibilities of an old artifact's history is sometimes the most interesting part of gun collecting, in my mind. A New England point of origin was something I'd thought about too - based on lots of reading over the last few months - and looking at many great images on the web.
One place I found that provided me with very helpful reference photos to start with was the NRA's National Firearms Museum online gallery collection. I have to admit, it is very helpful to be close enough to visit the museum as well! I work and live nearby - the NFM is an incredible resource for those like us who enjoy firearms history.
Thanks again!
- Adam

Looks 1790-1810, maybe 1820 based on the lock and guard styles, possibly New England to me based on the sideplate but nothing to really regionally identify it better. Great shape!

 

[Adam Lee]

I appreciate your comments, Mick! Thanks!
- Adam

Wow!! That is an amazing find, Adam and one mighty fine looking gun. To me, it does looks a little like a pieced together piece but I don't think it's a trade gun. I agree with Trench, the lock looks 1790-turn of the centuryish but from what I can see of the trigger guard it looks like it may have come from a Brown Bess.

Ya know, they aren't making 200 year old flintlocks anymore so you may want to consider not taking it to the range. Just collect, cherish and take care of this fine old piece of history. Many a fine old gun has been ruined by good intentions”¦”¦just my opinion of course.

By-the-way, thanks for the important job you do!!

 

[Adam Lee]

Richard,
Thanks for your comments - and regarding the cheek side view of the buttstock, I should have a few more images linked shortly!

- Adam

Actually, I'd like to see a pic of the cheek side of the butt. The gun does appear to be one of the many that were built up here using recycled parts. :hmm:

 

[Adam Lee]

Frank,
I'll add a few more pics when I can - not sure if any show the bore itself, one does show a little. I agree about the ramrod, it is obviously much more of a recent addition to the gun - and it's "cut" look only emphasizes the fact that the barrel was once at least several inches longer. I also believe that the barrel originally was somewhat swamped, based on the profile of the nosecap, which appears to have been trimmed, too.

- Adam

To my eye it looks like a build/rebuild from parts. The trigger guard and buttplate could be the era your friend suggested but the lock looks a little older. I would like to see a pic right into the muzzle. That ramrod is recent made. It wouldn't surprise me if that gun has been fired in recent years. Do have it checked out by a qualified individual. Where you live is well populated with ml shooters and reenactors. Finding help should not be difficult.

 

[Adam Lee]

Tom,
thanks for your thoughts on taking care of this gun! The approach you describe in careful cleaning - as opposed to "restoration" - match exactly what I have in mind. I am quite content to never reload this old boomstick again, and just enjoy it for what it is - an artifact of American history!

- Adam

I agree with Rich and would estimate 1790-1830. The name "Fiddian" is more than likely that of the lock maker. Without actually handling the gun I would reserve any comment on the possibility of it being a composite although the guard has a really English look to it.Unless you can find a competent gunsmith skilled in restoration not necessarily a builder leave the gun alone.If it were mine I would fix the lock, make sure it wasn't loaded and other than some surface cleaning with a soft rag and mild dish washing detergent,I would leave it alone.I have used a mixture of boiled linseed oil,turpentine,and vinegar in equal parts applied gently as a cleansing agent for maintenance. This will help the wood and NOT affect patina. I would also leave the brass alone but that is a personal decision.I truly HATE boiled linseed oil as a sole preservative.It will attract lint and take forever to dry completely. That's why museums quit using it and since it also darkens the wood and eventually hides the grain.

This gun is a nice rather plain fowling piece in what appears to be original flint but before shooting it I would have it thoroughly checked by a gunsmith competent in flintlock guns of this period.Most reenactment groups frown upon the use of old guns for obvious reasons.

As to your gun's finish,I have handled several early guns in the last several years and have found that simple hand rubbing over a prolonged period will really help to bring them back.For those hard to reach places around the tang panels I use nose grease and a finger.I once worked on an early 18th century gun in attic condition and really brought it back and it was really dry and a lot worse than this gun.On lock removal gently partially turn screws a little at a time tapping as you go. To remove after screws are out ease the lock out and NEVER pull by the hammer.

Good luck with your gun.I just bought a rough as a cob little half stocked carbine which may be a composite late war CW piece possiby stocked in beech with an Enfield style lock. It's gonna present a real challenge since among other challenges the guard ,butt piece and cock screws are slotless nails,but that's the fun of it. :grin: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Okwaho]

Adam, thanks for your kind words AND NOT asking about the nose grease-finger dichotomy. I once had a response made via PM from some one who said that he didn't want to appear foolish asking about this particular technique on line "in front of God and everybody"The mixture I mentioned is a rather old fashioned recipe and I have seen it mentioned by others.Another hint: I once worked on an old 1863 Springfield with a lot of rust including a frozen rear sight.I used some reconstituted lemon juice from the refrigerator and three and four grades steel wool.While I couldn't do anything about the deep rust on the butt heel I did have good results on the rest including the rear sight which functioned perfectly.There was no affect on the existing patina.Incidentally I am a reenactor and occasionally carry a gun although I don't fight any more. I used to carry some lemon juice for that early morning light rust inside the tent.Another little tip, the wood working stores often carry steel wool made without any oil for use on furniture and it works well on gun stocks. Old guns can present real challenges but I like working on them as well as guns used by some reenactors without a clue as to maintenance and upkeep. :hmm: :v :thumbsup:
As always I welcome responsible opposing comment AND suggest experimenting before proceeding on any procedure to be used.
Thanks again
Tom Patton :bow: